This might be more of a rant than a question, but I've been reading a ton of stuff about WRX/STIs in waiting for my car and it seems that everybody complains about the stock tune being basically worthless in the 2009+ cars. It seems that everybody says that a stage 1 tune is an easy way to fix it, but it sounds like SOA is pretty quick to dismiss motor related claims if the ECU has been flashed and if there is ANY chance that they would dismiss it based on this, that is not a fix I am willing to risk. FROM EXPERIENCE, does anybody have some insight as to whether or not there are real issues here? I have to say that, in waiting for my first Subaru, I am not feeling very confidant that I made the right decision here. If Subaru actually messed up the tune this bad, is that really a road I even want to travel?
It's gonna be a daily driver, but I planned on doing basic bolt ons as well (intake, exhaust). That's what lead me to find that people who did exhaust and intakes were HAVING to do a tuner. The thing is, I did exhaust with an ORP and a tune on my focus and never had a warranty issue. The dealer I worked with never even said anything about the ORP or anything. Granted, I never had any motor issues... Nor was the SVT known for having them.
The stock tune is "less than ideal" as it has to compensate for a wide range of altitude and gas variations nationwide. Will it blow your motor? Under the right conditions it can. Can an aftermarket tune also blow your motor? Under the right conditions it can too. Do you want to know more about what's going on with the tune? Is that what you mean by "from experience." If you want to retain your warranty, you can still get a catback exhaust for noise. It doesn't require a tune. I believe SPT makes an intake that's probably warranty friendly as well. Unless they've made one that sits in the fender, it's basically a hot air intake though so don't be surprised if the car feels flat in the summer. In reality though, the basic bolt-on mods that will make a difference in power are just a retune and a downpipe (with a retune for the downpipe of course). Running higher octane fuel with a retune will net you noticeable gains as well. All of these power adding mods will be plenty of grounds for SOA to deny a powertrain warranty claim.
Thanks for the input, idget. That clarifies part of my question. (I just need to decide tune/downpipe vs. powertrain warranty.) By "from expererience," I'm wondering if anyone has mods similar to these (downpipe/exhaust and tune only) on a 2011 or earlier vehicle and has put enough miles on to know if these mods are relatively safe/stable. I fully understand that pushing the car's output potentially decreases the life of the vehicle, but I would like to feel confident that I should realistically not need to rebuild the engine before putting on 100k or so miles.
To be brutally honest, there's no way to know. I made it less than 10k miles with a solid custom tune and constant logging. I've seen people make it less than 50k on a stock car. On the otherhand I've seen 100k plus lightly modded cars. Imho I think if you want to mod the car then you really do have to pay to play. Just sucks that the pistons are a weak point. If you want long life and a warranty, leave it stock. If something breaks that shouldn't in the next 3 years or whatever you'll get it fixed. That's why you bought new, right? Bc you wanted a warranty?
Ummm, less than 10k miles on a tune alone? Less than 50k on a stock car? Could you please explain? I was going to buy new because I wanted a nice, new, performance minded car, fresh off the line, that would last me for a while (like my SVT Focus). I'll be honest though, it's sounding like I need to run the hell away from Subaru based on that knowledge. Maybe I'm ignorant, but knowing that these cars are that volatile, why are people still buying them? What do you mean I've got to pay to play? I would be PAYING for a brand new car?! I don't understand why I should assume that I am going to have to rebuild the damn motor every 3-4 years (or even yearly if I tune it???)? Is this just what people expect when buying a Subaru?
I think you're making this out to be a lot more than it is. There are plenty, and by that I mean thousands of WRXs running around out there that are still on the original motor. Your comparison of the SVT Focus motor to the WRX/STI motor is really an apples/oranges comparison. The pay to play means that if you decide to modify your car and you pop the motor, then it's likely that you'll be paying for it. Not guaranteed, but it's like that with any brand. Ford is denying warranty coverage to Mustang owners who have a modified car and toast the manual transmission or have a retune on the V6 and have the driveshaft go to pieces during a dyno pull or out on the road doing 100+. I ran a 2002 WRX for over 120k miles with a Stage 2 tune (downpipe, uppipe, a few other mods, reflash) before it needed to have the heads rebuilt because the 2.0l motors were prone to exhaust valve issues if the lash wasn't kept up. There are plenty of people out there with more miles and plenty with fewer. It all depends on the driver and the way the car is driven and maintained and also a bit of luck. Relax and enjoy your car.
Thanks for your input, Shortythefirefighter, but it's hard to relax and enjoy my car when I keep running into stories about WRXs blowing up way before their time and then everyone else says how "reliable" they are? It's just a bit confusing. Also, my car just got ordered, I think this is the best time to worry, I can still get away from it. I realize that the SVTF and WRX aren't exact comparisons (one is japanese turbo AWD, one is American FWD), but they compare in that they are both upgraded, 4 cylinder econo cars, that are meant to be "driver's cars" and have their limits experienced. The difference is that one seems to have a much higher chance of randomly blowing up several times before I hit 100k miles, can't take Mobil 1 oil for some random reason, and comes from the manufacturer with a tune that makes it run lean but I can't fix without voiding my warranty... Sorry, I'll end my rant. I think I answered my own questions. I don't want to be under this car all the time.
I think you're confusing optimal performance (stage 1 flash) vs stock. There is nothing "wrong" with stock, it is just common knowledge that the car could be running better and safer. Your car will be under warranty if that is the route you want to choose. If something breaks bring it in to get fixed. When your warranty is up, tune your car and enjoy. Or do what everyone else does. Worry about the warranty for 5k - 15k, then get the mod bug and watch your bank account drain.
I have close to 90K on my 05 STI, original motor with all of the bolt on's and have not had a single motor related issue. Just make sure you run good oil and get it changed regularly.
Once again, you're making a lot more out of this than you need to. The vast majority of Subaru WRX owners are NOT on forums, and of the ones that are you're seeing a very, very minute percentage of them have blown up their motors. It's easy to get caught up in the internet hype, I did the same thing while my car was on order and I have been around these cars for a decade. You start reading horror stories online and suddenly every single car is affected by them and you spend nights worrying about it. The interesting thing about forums is that you're never going to get the full story behind what happened. Odds are, it wasn't the car at all but a bad tune, bad gas or a dumbass owner (or any combination thereof). You can go look at any new car out there and you'll be able to scare the crap out of yourself on just about any vehicle out there. For every issue you see online, there are thousands and tens of thousands of cars without the issue. Does a modified vehicle automatically mean a voided warranty? Not always. Being upfront with the dealership beforehand can go a long way rather than trying to hide something. That'll get you screwed every time. All that being said, it's up to you whether you cancel the order or not. Personally, I have enjoyed my '11 quite a bit. For the record, Mobil 1 isn't that great an oil. ("Bob is the oil guy" is a great place to do some research) It tends to break down pretty quickly, you're better off with Shell Rotella or Amsoil.
Thanks again for the replies guys/gals. I think you bring up a great point about not all the WRX owners being on the forums and taking every story with a grain of salt. When I honestly look back at my track record for taking care of my machines (snowmobiles, sportbikes, cars, etc) I know that this thing will get taken off on my end and that I probably have nothing to worry about. I've wanted a Subaru from the first time I saw a rally, so there is probably no amount of worrying that could get me to cancel my order. I think I am just going to suck it up and deal with stuff as it breaks. I think I was just having a panic moment that I was making the wrong decision and lost focus for a minute. Thanks for your honesty guys/gals. p.s. If the stock tune is such an easily fixed "issue," why hasn't this issue been brought to SOA? Or has it?
EPA, California SMOG, MPGs, lawyers, money... pick one or all. Lots of moving parts keep the Subaru's they way they are.
Yes, less than 10k miles on an '07 STI with less than 20miles on it when I bought it. Had a Cobb accessport waiting at home and flashed it right away after reading about the factory tune and having had some experience with the way the ecu works with my previous car (06wrx). Datalogged it almost daily. Broke it in normally and later got a custom tune with new exhaust at around 5k. Continued to datalog it. Drove it the same as my 06 wrx which was problem free with a turbo upgrade. 6-10 autox/track days and about 8k miles of commuting a year. I was just one of the unlucky ones. But for every one like me I'm sure there are several problem free owners. I decided to mod the car before I bought it, so fortunately I budgeted the cost of a motor build. After the mechanically weak point was addressed (pistons), it ran great. Most do. Hell, many stock motors run great for years. I don't see any reason to worry if you plan to leave the car stock. If you are one of the really really unlucky ones to have a stock motor let go, you're covered under warranty. But if you plan to mod it, then yes, there is a possibility that the pistons might let go. You're asking us to quantify that possibility, which is of course impossible. IMO the motor reliability isn't the greatest. But come on, these cars make over 100hp per liter from the factory. Most modded cars are approaching or surpassing 150hp per liter. You can't expect them to last forever if you wring them out.
From what I understand, the stock tune is the way it is because of emissions. Could be wrong there. I wouldn't worry about the stock tune for daily driving stuff without mods. If something happens, that's what warranty is for. If you're thinking Stage 1 or something just to optimize the tune from stock and such, there isn't really a point. Different story if you want to start getting into power gains. Remember, no one complains that their car is completely fine on the Internet! The loudest voices will be from the occasional mishap.
Thanks again everybody. If/when I mod the car I will just plan on budgeting for a rebuild if needed (5k?). I think you make a great point that I didn't think about with power/liter ratio. I am not used to turbo/super cars yet. I grew up around NA American muscle/pony cars my entire life (mustangs, stingray vette, cuda, GTX, Coronet, AMX 390) and never saw the motors being pushed beyond their limits with forced induction. I'm just not used to this boosted world yet... (newb?!) The only foreign car I have direct experience with is my brother's Acura TL type S. That thing's got headers, exhaust, intake, etc and has run great for years with zero issues. The mods that interest me at this point would be a new exhaust. I want to get some better sound out of the car, but it sounds like no matter what you do to this car's exhaust, you need to tune it, correct? Knowing what I want, would anyone be interested in making suggestions?
If you just do a cat back you won't need a tune. I had my 2010 for about 20k miles before I went with a stage 1 tune. I could definitely notice a difference between the stock tune and the stage 1 tune. It didn't magically make the car crazy fast, the power felt like it came on a bit sooner and was far smoother to redline.
I have an 02 wrx wit over 150k on the original motor. Upgraded to a vf34 Turbo about 60k miles ago...and so far not one problem. I was very surprised to have near perfect compression on all cylinders still on the 02 motor. But as far as the stock tune, its perfectly fine for the avg person. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the car when it comes...and we will all be waiting for pics
can't really compare the 2.0l to the 2.5l. The 2.0L pretty much just needs good oil and valve clearances checked. Also, fwiw, the factory ecu logic changed between 02 and 03, then again in 06 (with some models), along with some ecu hardware changes as well.
Warranty related issues from how what I have learned from speaking with different subaru service centers is that some will warranty just about anything and look the other way on mods. I have been up front with the service poeple and they will do what they can if something comes up. Also I have all the stock parts and reflashing back to stock isn't hard. not sure if they can go back and see all of that on the ecu but should help.
Hey WRX and Starkall, if I decide to do anything, I will just leave it as is and be honest with the dealership. That's just how I work and don't want to try and deceive anyone. From my experience, when people are suspected of lying, other people are FAR less willing to help out. Conversely, if you go in with your mods on, they could just shut you down right there. It sounds like that is just a risk you have to take. I will probably talk to some of the service people/manager before I chose to mod the car and see what they say. There are plenty of threads about flashing the ECU on the newer cars and it sounds like they can figure it out, every time.
I don't have to lie to my dealer, they know my mods and clearly stated that even if I blow the motor to just put it back to stock. Just talk to the service manager at your dealer and see what he says about mods.
They just told me that if I have problems to bring it in the way it is, and if there's a major problem like engine replacement I would need to put stock parts back on and unmount the accessport. They just said it has to have the stock parts in incase a Subaru rep comes in.
Ok yeah, I understand what you're saying. They are obviously a "mod-friendly" dealership then. Which dealership was it?
If i were you, I would do nothing to the car for a while and instead dedicate a lot more time reading about the subaru modding world, "stages", options, etc. which I know is hard to do when you'll have that dazzling beauty parked in the garage begging for more If you are buying new follow the proper break-in procedures and/or research related first. or... A) Get a cat-back exhaust only (for better sound) and leave the car's tune stock or at least until your warranty is up - this will keep your warranty = little to no power gain B) Get a tune/Accessport only - may void warranty (Accessport is one common engine management system out there that allows you to switch back to stock tune quickly and easily as well as monitor many things that are going on with the car live) = mild power gain C) Get a cat-back exhaust only (for better sound) and get a tune/accessport- allows warranty to stay in tact = mild power gain (b/c of tune only, not cat-back exhuast) and overall better functioning of car D) Get a downpipe (for better flow/performance) which requires a tune/accessport - may void warranty = moderate power gain and overall better functioning of car E) Get a down-pipe (for better flow/performance) which requires tune/accessport and cat-back exhaust (for better sound) if you wish - may void warranty = moderate power gain and overall better funtioning F) Do nothing
Thanks for chiming in, Nuke. You seem to be very well respected in this community. Do you have further reasoning to add?
Skeets - C and D were the options I was looking at. I'm not sure why you say that C would not have a chance of voiding the warranty though? The tune seems to be what I have to worry about with the warranty? Also, I have been reading a TON and fully understand what the "stages" are that you are referring to too. The fact that I have been reading so much is why I was able to ask my initial questions and what brought me to the concerns that I had. If you feel that I am missing something, please point me in the right direction.
^ to clarify a bit more - Accessport is just one commone engine management system out there that allows the user to tune car with "pre-made" maps that are an improvement over the stock ecu's map/tune (yet in my opinion still a "general" tune for car and not as good as a custom tune - depending on YOUR car). The Accessport has the option to switch to different maps easily, thus the reason I stated you can go back to the stock tune if you needed to bring it in to get worked on while it's under warranty and they wouldn't know the differnence... unless of course you told them. A "tune" as it is commonly referred to online refers to a custom tuned map created specifically for an individual car. This can be done a number of different ways also for example(s); logging data from a car and submitting it to a tuner to adjust various adjustments on the car, having a tuner plug in to your car and drive around or put on dyno while they observe what your's doing and make adjustments as they see appropriate to your specific car. I do not claim to have 100% accuracy with what I have posted but I am confident this will be useful information for you to know right out of the gate and something I wish would have been clearly stated to me when I first started on the forums and what the fart "modding" subaru is. Good luck.
Thanks again, Skeets. But if you look at one of my first posts (and MANY of the SUbaru forums online), SOA seems to be able to tell without any problems if you flash the ECU. Thanks again for your insight, but I understand what tuning is. My current car is tuned and running an ORP (meaning it HAD to be tuned.)
Not saying you havn't - but still sounds like it would be good to continue until makign a decision unless you have lots of $$ ? I have thought I've got things figured out several times over the years and have been reminded again of my "newbness" FYI: I started with k&n drop in air filter preset stage 1 tune loaded map on Accessport2. Than added downpipe and appropriate map easily downloaded online. Than added catback exhaust - no need to change tune. Than later added bigger fuel pump, sti intercooler, sti turbo (vf39), electronic boost control, and got tuned by aforementioned Nuke. Also did other suspension and driveline upgrades but that is another subject however very important in keeping in mind - more power has great effect over handling, feeling, etc.
No, we don't respect him. We are just nice to him so we don't hurt his feelings. He learned everything he knows from me
Fair enough - as I said and others mentioned tuning "may affect your warranty" - check with your dealership and see what additions they will warranty... Didn't mean to preach just bored at work and killing time trying to help out. Good luck!
Well...the car is still new. Learn to appreciate the car as how it is right now. You can track it and race it in stock form. Nothing wrong with that. Are there improvements with a tune? Sure are. Because I play with cars all the time, you would probably expect me to tell you to get a tune and blah blah blah, but I think you can enjoy the car a lot more right now. Yes the stock tune sucks but keep in mind, if anything happens, thats what warranty is for. Now, once the warranty is up, give me a ring
^^^^ HAHAHA! Hilarious, Nuke. I have a feeling I will be calling you soon enough. Anyways, thanks again for the honest input from everybody. I really appreciate it. As I said above, I was having a little panic moment when I started started this thread and have calmed down now. After finding the reports of motors blowing, I was worried I made a mistake (especially because everybody else was talking about how reliable the cars are). I feel plenty confidant that I will love the car when I get it, but here's the plans, anyways : -Pick up car (hopefully before June...) -Have a nice, loooong break in session. Following SOA's guidelines. (No big rush, and yes, I have read all the threads on break-ins.) -Once done with the break in, put a CBE or ABE on it just to get a little sound out of it. -Drive the hell out of it for a while... - Once I'm comfortable with the motor's reliability and condition (probably check compression just to have a pre-mod baseline), if the motor seems to be up to par, talk to my dealership about upgrades and their policies on it, then probably just start upgrading anyways, because I know myself and I will always want more. Probably go with Cobb Stage 2. - Drive it a little more. -Upgrade brakes,suspension, intercooler, etc. (whatever I feel necessary to match my desired power level.) And yes, I understand that I will spend some money on this car. I'm ok with it and have a seperate savings account labeled "Subaru."
After you are ok with voiding your warranty. Talk to your tuner and read a ton before you buy parts. We have a unique community here vs most of the rest of the US. We have a lot of local tuners and this means some better options when it comes to tuning and modifications. I say this because of your comment of the COBB stage 2. This is a very common path for a lot of people. However, with our community you can get a better tune, similar parts and have an all around safer better performing car for less money than the "COBB Stage 2" path. So enjoy it stock. Before you buy anything, find your tuner and talk about your plans.
Sage advice, ofspunk7. Thanks a lot. You're right though, that was a huge downfall for the limited availability, SVTF, that I drove for the last few years. Nobody around here really wanted to touch them.
