Best Gas station/Gasoline?

Discussion in 'Modifications And Maintenance' started by Michael48, Jan 31, 2009.

  1. Michael48
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    Michael48 Member

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    Where is the best place/Station for 92+ Octane?

    Shell?, Mobil? SuperAmerica?

    Where is the best place for Race gas/ what octane?

    100?, 110?, Inbetween Monitcello/MapleGrove,MN?
     
  2. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    BP and Shell 92 Non-Oxygenated if you can find it. Stay away from Holiday and SA. There's a few places around the cities with 110, but out in the sticks I don't know ;)
     
  3. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'm seriously not sure why this information is still being spread. There must be some disconnect between the "E85" language and the "non-oxy" language.

    Not to be a **** or anything for picking on you, but non-oxy gas will give you LESS power then similar octane gas with some part ethanol. This is because (as we all know from the E85 discussions), ethanol is a knock retardant. You can run more timing on gas with 10% ethanol then you can with gas with zero ethanol.

    The only plus to non-oxy gas is better gas mileage, as ethanol (again, as everyone knows from e85) burns with less energy thus generating less power and worse gas mileage.

    Mike, to answer your question; I've found BP 92e10 (e10 = typically 10% ethanol, but I've heard rumors that it can range from 8-20%) gas will regularly give you the most power. Shell 92 gas is a close second.
     
  4. FastMatt
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    FastMatt Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100%:+1:
    So does my motorcycle!
     
  5. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Ok then... Being that I drive my car for a living, better gas mileage is what I want. That's why I also have a map for 110, when I want teh moar pow3r!

    My point was: BP or Shell. Avoid SA and Holiday. So there... keep scouring the internetz looking for those who are "wrong."


    http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html
     
  6. Snowbum
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    Snowbum Well-Known Member

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    BP, only because if you get $2 off a rainbow wash with purchase of gasoline ;)
     
  7. Michael48
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    Michael48 Member

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    Shell 92 Non-Oxygenated, BP 92e10 (e10 = typically 10% ethanol, Shell 92 gas is a close second, BP, only because if you get $2 off a rainbow wash

    Sounds like shell is the winner! Thanks for the replies ^

    What about race Gas? I would like to have to tunes for my 20G.

    What to look out for? what Octane? How much per Gallon? Airports or any gas stations in the cities?
     
  8. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I base my fuel choice based on engine safety and most power, not gas mileage (you know, because I drive a full time AWD turbocharged vehicle).

    Anyway, the point of my post was to qualify your statement, as you didn't yourself. We all browse internet forums for car information, just doing my part to keep the info actually correct.

    In addition, I would say that it's a bad idea to cite an ethanol FAQ from a website that is selling a fuel test kit and has an interest in scaring customers into buying. :roll:
     
  9. Paul Revere
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    Paul Revere BANNED

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    I don't think we throw out where we pick up our 110. There is a 110 station on the way sorta speak to RS motors if you really wanna know please PM me as I have yet to see its location given away on this forum out in the open.

    As far as prolonged use of 110 that is not recommended, 6MTizzle had some bad side effects from running 110 constantly in his car. Melting sensors bad ...

    Please tune your car on the gas that is available on any given day around your area. You will be most happy with that.
     
  10. Snowbum
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    Snowbum Well-Known Member

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    ^THaT

    Also, if you plan on roadtrips, get a tune for 87 or 90. IIRC there are a few stations out west that only offer 85/87/90.
     
  11. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Right on.

    And the fuel test kit is sweet... Don't Knock It!!! :)

    I'm a firm believer in non-oxygenated gas being "better" for my car. I have absolutely no technical data to back it up. I have no lab experiments set up to quantify my assertion. But I believe. I have faith in Non-Oxy more than I do in an ~10% ethanol blend. No matter the magical properties of Ethanol. I'm livin' Non-Oxy for life, y0!
     
  12. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    /Thread.

    If there is anyone on here to listen to when it comes to gas, Nate is right at the top of my list. Considering he's tuned more than his share of cars on the board and has had first hand experience seeing different results among different fuels, I'd put my faith in his experience over someones gut instinct. Oxygenated gas will not harm your car. A turbocharged Subaru isn't some magical machine that's going to kill itself if you're not pouring liquid gold down the filler neck. Your first priority for getting tuned should be picking a gas that you are around most. Your car will be just fine on BP E10, and will likely make more power than a tune with non-oxy.

    If Nate told me that I should be running BP 92 in my car and Holy Water in the washer tank, I'd be stopping by the Cathedral with a bucket and funnel right after I filled up at BP.
     
  13. Kracka
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    Kracka Member

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    BP Ultimate 92 (its actually 92.8 octane) is the best we can get locally. For a turbo car I recommend running the 10% ethanol version since that little bit acts as a good knock quench.
     
  14. AWDimprezaL
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    AWDimprezaL has more posts than you

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    My car and motorcycle run best on non oxy, but my car is a freak of nature.
     
  15. Aegis
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    Aegis TAKE IT!

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    You know what makes me laugh?

    Everyone says "stay away from Holiday and SA"

    but the only place that sold 110 last year was a Holiday on Nicollet. So it's OK to go to them for that, but nothing else? :roll:

    Oh and all the funny aside, I am sure there are about 10000000 threads about this on this forum alone. Please search. Thanks :)
     
  16. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    The 110 isn't the same as the 89/90/92. There isn't much to compare 110 to, whereas with the 89/90/92, it varies from station to station. A stock car off the lot is built and tuned around a certain grade of gas. The quality of fuels in that AKI is going to vary, Holiday's 92octane isn't as good as BP's 92octane and so on. 110 is what it is, and odds are, they all get it from the same place. There isn't much to compare with the 110, because there are only a few stations that sell it.
     
  17. Aegis
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    Aegis TAKE IT!

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    And ignore me about the search, I tried it to get some links, and it's like finding a needle in a haystack. This thread will stay.
     
  18. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Beach's in New Brighton sold 110 last year... That holiday isn't the only one. :)
     
  19. Impreza 2.2 T AWD
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    Impreza 2.2 T AWD New Member

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    American Ave By 494 Close to Home depot sells 110 but your looking at close to 7 bucks a gallon.
     
  20. Paul Revere
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    Paul Revere BANNED

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    It's not Holiday 110 though, thats just were it is ;)
     
  21. Shibbs
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    Shibbs The Daywalker

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    I have Shell 110 not a block away from me. In the summer I think they switch to 100 unleaded tho. Not 100% sure if/why.
     
  22. WRX1
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    WRX1 _ Staff Member

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    And to add my .02 on the whole non-oxy/no ethanol things. When you are just cruising off boost, you are running a small displacement low compression 4 cylinder motor. With all the tunes and testing I have done, I can get 30+mpg with my 18g, 4eat wrx running 91 non-oxy (25-28 as a DD). As I run BP,Shell, and even SA, my mileage dropped down to 20-21 as a DD and I could not get any better than 25 on a freeway trip. As for the tuning part, I was only about to pick up 2 degrees of timing by running the ethanol gas. Yep, that is probably 8-10 WHP, but at the end of the day, that is only 8-10whp at WOT. I don't spend that much time at WOT, so running the non-oxy is the way to go for me. But again, that is what works for ME.


    Russ

    Oh ya, there is a Citgo in North St. Paul that has 110 in the pump year round. Most places run kerosene in the winter and race gas in the summer, citgo has 1 pump for each. They are also running citgo 110 (gas is red) as of last summer.
     
  23. Aegis
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    Aegis TAKE IT!

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    I know this, I read jason's post after mine :p
     
  24. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, those are good points, and evidently similar to what wrxecho feels as well.

    As I stated above, I prefer to get the best gas possible because I know the pistons on Subaru's suck, and would rather pay the extra $50/year MPG difference vs having to replace my stock pistons due to a ringland failure, or retune for the lost power.

    I guess I would also say that 2* of timing is a ton when talking about a performance tune at WOT. You're right, we're talking ~10 WHP, but we're also talking 15-20 more WTQ, through the whole RPM range. That's really quite a bit of power.

    All in all though, it's like talking about any car modifications. Everyone will be faced with choices about what to buy and have to balance cost, safety, and reliability.
     
  25. Michael48
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    Michael48 Member

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    Ethanol vs. Non-Oxygenated

    Something Interesting about Ethanol and damage to engine some say:

    Ethanol is hygroscopic (will absorb water), and is an excellent solvent (dissolves materials). Due to ethanol's affinity for water, phase separation and water contamination occurs very quickly.

    Simply put, ethanol is an excellent SOLVENT (dissolves plastic, rubber, fiberglass even gaskets), and unlike MTBE ethanol will ABSORB WATER, which can cause serious problems to some engines.

    My question would be aren't there a fair amount of plastic and rubber that the solvent/Ethanoal come in contact with when run through a Car?

    What are the possible long term affects?

    With that said Bullwinkle is right about the performance aspect and his technical data is beyond my understanding as still being very new to tuning a Subie. I would say if your looking for a mild to more aggressive tune (the most power you can get 10 - 40 extra whp) with just a different fuel type go for the Ethanol.

    With what WRXEcho said about Non-Oxygenated: He is correct from what I’ve found Non-Oxygenated gas is safer long term, Will get you better mileage and doesn’t dissolve parts as harshly as Ethanol. So on more conservative tune/wear it seems Non-Oxygenated gas is safer.

    Thanks to everyone for the many good opinions. I researched on the web from people who sell testing kits for your fuel. Edmunds.com and asked my uncle who has been a mechanic for many years. I think it would be nice to do a test on two Subaru’s one with 92 Non-Oxygenated and one with Ethanol like E85. The performance Aspect is already been discovered the long term effect I don’t believe have been completely understood and compared.
     
  26. Soupboy
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    Soupboy Well-Known Member

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    Unless you can consistently refill your tank at the same spot the whole discussion around non-oxy vs. oxy dino juice is pointless. Non-oxy gas is like finding Waldo. Not sure what bearing the 110 discussion has.

    If you refill your tank at the same place the vast majority of the time it would tend to imply you primarily drive your car short distances (DD, commute, etc.) rendering the long-term impact on MPG moot.

    Given the long term prevalence of ethanol additives and E85 vehicles it would appears we need not worry about ethanol damaging critical components or causing accelerated wear.

    All that being said ethanol sucks as an economic initiative (thread jack!).
     
  27. nm+
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    nm+ Professional Hypocrite

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    Just go to a gas station with lots of sales and newer equipment.
    Fresh gas and well maintaned tanks are far more important than branding.
     
  28. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    If you search around on Nasioc for a user called Hamfist he ran his 02 for a number of years on E85. Last I saw he had no ill effects from the fuel. It's not like you're running sulfuric acid that'll corrode your lines the instant it comes in contact with them. Also, there is a distinct lack of corroded parts on cars running around right now. I think you'll be just fine running E10. Unless you can reliably find a non-oxy station everywhere you're going, you might be better off getting tuned for "normal" gas.
     
  29. moerocca
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    moerocca New Member

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    BP also has Invigorate which has alot more detergents in it. A few years ago the EPA lowered the minimum amount required by law.
     
  30. AWDimprezaL
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    AWDimprezaL has more posts than you

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    I did an experiment last week between holiday and bp non oxy, I put in 5 gallons of 92 holiday and drove my normal commute, 30 miles each way, I got 21 mpg on that 5 gallons.

    Same type of deal, 5 gallons of 91 non oxy, same commute, same conditions, temps around the same, I got 31 mpg. (which I almost always get when I'm using non oxy)

    In the summer, my motorcycle typicly can get 15-20 more miles from a tank o fuel on non oxy. I dont go out of my way to find non 0xy, but if I'm in the area where I know there is non oxy and i need fuel, I'll get it.
     
  31. Paul Revere
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    Paul Revere BANNED

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    I always put non-oxy in my dirtbikes and sled they seemed to always run better with that.
     
  32. WRX1
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    WRX1 _ Staff Member

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    And here is my last tidbit. Now this is my car and with my tune, but my DD tune will work just fine on 91 non-oxy. Again, yes I am giving up some timing (only from 6k+), but again, I can drive weeks without ever hitting that range. I have a agressive map that will work with 92 that has that bit more timing in it. But I know that where ever I take my car, I don't have to worry about gas. If you tune run that ragged edge on good 92 oxy gas, you are screwed as soon as you leave the cities. Most place outside the cities only have 91 from preimium.

    Russ
     
  33. dipp
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    dipp Well-Known Member

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    say what! I ran my car on race gas almost all summer no problems.
     
  34. Aegis
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    Aegis TAKE IT!

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    He never said everyone would have the problems, only that Pete did. And that it's not recommended. There are bound to be failures regardless of what you try. Also, you said "almost all summer" which implies that you changed it up a bit. Pete ran it ALL THE TIME. That was all he put into the tank. Ever. I saw the damage, and the race gas causing the problems was the conclusion that was made by subaru techs.

    *shrug* If it works for you then that's great, but the person who asked the question needs to be aware that it does not work for everyone.
     
  35. dipp
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    dipp Well-Known Member

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    I am extremely puzzled since race gas burns cooler and makes your engine run smoother ( no detination ) how could that be the problem? Unless your tune wasn't correct for it. I only ran maybe 4 tanks of pump gas all summer.
     
  36. Aegis
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    Aegis TAKE IT!

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    That might have been his problem, we really don't know why it happened hehe
    but he sure learned his lesson :p
     
  37. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    Just because race gas high a higher detonation threshold does not mean your engine runs smoother. I could make an engine knock on 110 octane and run great on 85 octane. Calibration is key.
     
  38. wall of tvs
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    wall of tvs Well-Known Member

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    Leaded race gas kills the front o2 sensor on Subies. If you are running any sort of tune that uses this sensor for closed loop fueling, your car will end up running like shat in the long run.
     
  39. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Race gas doesn't make your car run cooler or smoother if it isn't tuned for it. Race gas has a higher octane, and thus a higher resistance to combustion. If your timing is adjusted for a fuel that ignites easier, like 92, and you pump 110 in there, you are going to get crappy fuel economy for one. Octane is resistance to ignition AND detonation.
     
  40. WRX1
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    WRX1 _ Staff Member

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    And don't forget the the flame front ends up being in a different location. Such as the piston is almost all the way down to the bottom of the stroke before the explosion starts. So as the piston passes bdc and starts its rise back up, the combustion is still happening. So the piston bottoms out really hard, and in turn will kill your rod bearings. And that will happen running 100 on a 92 tune.


    Russ
     
  41. 6MTizzle
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    6MTizzle 2SLO

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    My car burned through one o2 sensor like Tom mentioned. Otherwise race gas caused no other issues on my car. I'm glad you know more about my car than I do Chet.
     
  42. wall of tvs
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    wall of tvs Well-Known Member

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    I think that the 110 also killed the front o2 on Dream's old STI as well...
     
  43. AWDimprezaL
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    AWDimprezaL has more posts than you

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    Leaded gas, kill an o2 sensor? NO WAY!!!!!!! :)
     
  44. Scuba Steve
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    Scuba Steve Well-Known Member

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    ...and mine:biggrin:...:mad:
     
  45. Paul Revere
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    Paul Revere BANNED

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    I didn't remember what sensor you burned down, that is all.

    Plus living where the OP does is prolly not worth the effort to tune and run on 110 ...