For those in the know, I am debating between Hawk HPS and HP Plus for my rears, using FHI 2 pots. Front's are the Racing Brake 16" kit which uses the same pads as the FHI 4 pots. The fronts currently have HPS's in there, but they have about 1/3 material left. The HPS's have been good thus far. 120 to 10 in a serious hurry with them smoking and they still worked quite well. I wish I had a pic of my rotors that time. My debate is whether or not to get something a little more high temp biased for the rears, and the same for the fronts not long after I get the car going. The car will not be a winter car what so ever, so I'm not that worried about the braking performance in -20 degree temps. I'm looking for an all-around car, that I can go to some events and not cook the pads, yet have somewhat decent day to day drivability. Noise and dust need not apply, as a performance car has said accepted drawbacks, so I'm not worried about some squeaking and dust. I'll get over it. Also, eating the rotors a little more is not the end of the world. I've got three years on this front set, so I won't be mad about replacing them. Rotors are a wear item and need to be replaced anyways. Thoughtful input?
Will this be for high speed events? I guess I have some questions I'd like to ask that might help you decide: 1. What type of events? 2. Does the car's characteristics exhibit any bias under heavy and hard braking into corners? 3. Are you a left foot braker & trail braker? 4. What type of tires do you plan on running? 5. What's your suspension setup going to be like, medium or stiff? Some body or none? Personally I would put a more aggressive pad on the front and less in the rear because with my current setup and vechicle type RWD allows me to rotate very quickly with some fancy foot work or match them both. I've driven a M3 with HP Plus with Toyo RA1's and they have very good initial response. I thought the stock suspension was a bit too soft for how well these pads worked, throwing the weight forward fairly easy. The only other thing to keep in mind is the difference in operation temperatures for your needs which goes back to my first Q. Good luck, I'm sure other brake experts will be happy to chime in.
I've run the same HPS pads for 3 winter seasons with no issues. In the summer, usually before I hit a track event, I switch to HP+ pads. They're noisier, dustier and wear faster, but they work much better at the brake temps I see at a track day. Its not that hard to switch them out and to go back and forth between the two.
I switched to hawks last year and have not been very impressed, keep in mind this is on my Miata so take it for what it's worth. I run the HP+ in the front for track days and the HPS in the front on the street and autox, I run the HP+ in the rear all the time. Imo, if you're not on the track you'll never get the HP+ up to optimal temp. Plus they dust, a lot, way too much to be worth it on the street. *edit, if you are going to the track then I would second the above post and switch before the event.
Yellows are approx equal to HPS. +1 to HPS, I have those in my car. Great balance between street and a mildly strong pad.
Really? have you used both? i had bobcats for about 3 years, and while they are worlds better than stocker pads, their initial bite is kind of Meh... this year, i switched to Hawk HP+ as they finally became available for the rear of an 04 wrx. OMG. what a difference. these things are worlds better than the bobcats IMHO. with as much or more braking grip, and WAAAAYYYY better initial bite. the car grabs HARD when you get on the brakes. Hawk 4 Lyfe yo
I always liked the feel of my Axxis Ultimates (on my teg), dusty mofos but i felt they got the job done with great initial bite and pretty good temp resistance. Ive also always liked Colbalt friction pads and have heard great things about them as well, but they recently redid their entire brake pad line up so idk anything about them now. but i think they would be worth checking into, and i know the guys were extremely helpful there.
I've had the HPS pads front and rear for about a year now. I like them alot but I think i would get the HP+ next time. If you dont mind the dust or noise and you plan on doing some type of racing, i would go for the HP+. Everyone has different opinions on things so i would say just get teh +'s and find out for yourself. You wont know if you like them or not until you try them.
For a mixed pad, the AX6 is better. The only issue with them is that they do need a little heat into them before they ramp up and get real grippy. Cold, they're have a little more bite then stock. When hot, they only need light effort. Modulation with them is great. If you want something more linear cold to hot and aggressive, Cobalt Friction seems to be the end all. Pretty much everyone who runs their products love them. A lot if not all of their products (they don't really say) are of a carbon-ceramic material and all have a high heat range. I've read as many reviews as I could come across back when I was looking. My next buy will most likely be a Cobalt Friction product. As it stands now, I've been incredibly happy with Carbotech though. Back when I was looking, it was a toss up between the AX6 I got and Ferodo's DS2500 which has been a long standing king of double duty pads, still is. I've heard too many mixed comments about Hawk, although, they are inherently a good brand. EBC gets a lot of great user comments, but most serious drivers who actually have used a wide variety of products tend to dislike them as being very oem like, even the Yellowstuff. Just read reviews. Speed a couple days just searching Google and read as much as you can. There's a TON of info out there if you dig around for it. There are a lot of good pads out there. Part of the choice will depend upon how you want them to behave: cold bite, hot bite, how you want them to ramp up, aggressiveness, feel, etc. You'll have a number of great options, and there will be one ideal option for your particular application. What that is, I don't know. I don't know exactly what you want out of the pad and what you want to feel when using it.
1. More Solo than large track stuff, but I still want to keep some braking power at high speed stuff. I intend to do some driver schools and other big track stuff, but Solo will be the cheap bread and butter in the mean time. There will be other issues that pop with large track stuff that obviously doesn't rear its head on a street car, mainly cooling issues. 2. I'm not too worried about the bias at this point because it was crap before, ie too much front. That was because of the front brake setup with HPS's and NAPA econo crap in the rear with the '93 Legacy L brakes. If bias is an issue with the rear brake setup I can get a wagon proportioning valve to send a little more to the rear, or an adjustable valve if all else fails. Installing it is a non-issue. 3. I do like to left-foot brake and trail brake. A big part of that stemmed from my car not having a rear sway-bar for a long time, so I had to jam the brakes to get the rear to come around. The T-Leg bar is an 18mm unit which feels amazing coming from nothing. Power-on over-steer won't be an issue when I get the car going by the end of June. 4. My tires right now are crap, but I've been eye-balling some Star-Spec's for quite some time. I realize I can only brake as hard as my tires will grip. I'd rather over-run the tires than vice-versa. 5. I'd say I'm on the medium-stiff side. Slightly stiffer than a stock a stock STi, but not a whole lot. H&R Street Coilovers with Bilstein dampers. Poly all around, ALK's, etc. So far the HPS's have been a great street pad. However, I can cook them if I really want to, which is why I started this thread. the feeling I'm getting is that I probably whould get a dedicated set of *event* pads since they are in fact easily swappable.
I had the Colbalt Friction GT sports (they are called something else now) previous to the hawks. SOOOO much better. More bite, and way!!!! more feel. I'm really disappointed in the hawks. Granted that was previous to the switch in compounds but I'm going back to try the new compound as soon as the Hawks are burned up. My only comment on them is that they actually have a little too much bite and are a little on the hard side to modulate when cold. Again, this was on the miata with no abs. my.02 * I will also say that their service is top notch. I was heading out for a track day and needed pads asap, while the local retailer (adrenalin racing) was out of stock. They got on the horn with Cobalt and pulled a fresh set off the line and had it drop shipped to my house overnight.
I like this response; I think all to often I see a lot of drivers over use their brakes and under utilize their tires scrubbing off more speed than nessary. So they go to the track with some serious pads and tires, but they end up cording the out side of their tyres and can't figure how a little Honda is tailgating them in the tight sections. If you participate in events like at DCTC my experience has been with some decent tires and the AWD system you should be able to drive 8/10th with minimal braking. Even with Mt. Fuji's BM there were just two corners I had to apply above average braking. And at BIR w/used Hoosiers, street pad, and inconsistant shallow braking we were still able to keep traffic behind us. I think that as you put more track miles on your car you'll find more ways to maximize traction and will develope your own ideas of whats going to work best for your car and your way of driving stupid fast. :laugh:
Yep, used both. I am not a fan of the HPS or the HP+. I actually use Porterfield R4S for the RS (R4 on the track), but I don't think the OP needs to spend that kind of $$, especially if they are only for occasional AutoX/track use. I am currently using Bobcats on the STi and I will stay with them....
I've got some of these on the way since I can't get Hawk pads here. On the RS, I replaced a worn out set of Bobcats with the f/r combo of HPS/HP+ which worked well for me. But the Bobcats were too far gone for me to provide any kind of useful comparison. Stuart.
