what would be the best upgrade path for my car (2.2l AWD NA impreza LX) to make it a decently quick street car. aiming mostly on acceleration(right now the car tops out at 110mph, and thats fast enough for me), and handling. (oohh yeah its an auto) i want to keep it NA. i dont have the money to be messing with turbos. current mods: UR Underdrive pulley Cone filter Gutted Muffler R1 Racing Coilovers 20mm Rear sway bar thanks for the ideas!
If you don't have money for a turbo, you don't have money for much.. If you want to really be fast, you're going to need to port the head. New pistons, connecting rods,cams,injectors, ECU, maybe crankshaft. But if you wanted to go the cheap way.. I'd say a full exhaust, cams, injectors, and ECU.
or go the way im gonna go, but use your existing 2.2, and get some 1.8 heads to bump the compression up to about 11-1 that should at at least 40 hp then you'll be in automatic RS territory PS. i dont think your car is that good off the line not like a 4k launch anyway
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dynapar i like my gears right now. that my secret to continually betting you off the line . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> no...your secret is AWD, he can't get a good launch without wheelspin.
right now what i am thinking is that in order to run a turbo with good results, i would need new injectors, new pistons, rods, piggy back ecu, sleeves might not hurt either. not to mention all of the stuff i need to get a turbo set up to work, ei new crossmember up down pipe, and TBE. with that i will also need to run oil lines and coolant lines to the turbo. an NA biuld would cost probably a little more (cams are expensive). but what would the results be with high compression pistons, cams, injectors, titanium valve train ect... ??? i have no idea what power figure would come out of the engine with an NA build.
1000K for a NA build, delta cams regrind 200 maybe, high comp heads junkyard? ebay? 500, a little porting free if you have a dremel and bits, header 250 max. you have 135 stock, that would probably put you up into the 170-80 HP area, get a piggyback ecu that you can tune probably 10 more hp...its not as much HP as a turbo, but cheaper if you go the cheap route
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dynapar right now what i am thinking is that in order to run a turbo with good results, i would need new injectors, new pistons, rods, standalone ecu, sleeves might not hurt either. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> fixed that for you
Top speed 110mph? Was there any throttle left? My KIA Rio 1.5l DOHC tops out at 110mph. Are you flooring it?
being a little optomistic? a rio? i drove one to moorehead once...it wouldnt go over 93...i had it floored in 5th for about 4 miles, it took about a mile per mile an hour once i got past 90
Yup. In order to maximize acceleration without forced induction, working on the internals of your motor and tuning will be your best bet. Otherwise, it is best to save for a motor swap or get another car. [xx(]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Todd Torque Converter. Get the motor into the power band as quick as possible. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> agreed, also going the n/a route wont give you as good of a result as going turbo. You'll get more power for less and going N/A means you'll be going high compression which will need high octane(11cpr=racing gas? correct me if im wrong) or you will get alot of knocking.
this is all very interesting information. at 110 mph my car is in OD at about 4-4.5k but it would take like 10 miles to hit 111mph. doesnt the AVo turbo kit use a piggy back computer or does it use a stand alone? at 6 psi it makes over 200whp. thisis getign kinda off topic. any way, what upgrade path? does scooby sport make a 2.5" cat back?
If I were you, I'd either.. a) go out and buy a premade turbo kit or b) go to a junk yard and find a turbo out of a DSM or EVO, and make your own kit. Either way it's going to cost a good chunk of change, maybe $2500.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LVT <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Todd Torque Converter. Get the motor into the power band as quick as possible. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> agreed, also going the n/a route wont give you as good of a result as going turbo. You'll get more power for less and going N/A means you'll be going high compression which will need high octane(11cpr=racing gas? correct me if im wrong) or you will get alot of knocking. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> he should be able to run premium without problems, if the comp ratio is under 12
I've lost power! 2.5" is good. Some say you loose low end, but that's the point of getting peak power. Depending on what you do, then maybe a 2.25" is good. But it has to be mendral to benifit. I put in a glass-pack the other day, it's 2.25" inlet and outlet, but the inside is like small! Two (2) inches maybe only. I feel I lost my power, it's not too strong anymore. I seems to pull harder a bit at 4k though, but above that it slows down some. But oh well.... What you can do is put Legacy Turbo internals in yours and then turbo it. You don't even have to run lots of boost to get power. 10psi and you'll be about the same in power as a WRX or so. I'm going to build my EJ22E (NA block) with Legacy turbo rods and forged pistons with SOHC 2.5RS heads. I guess this build will go in Lee's RS. He'll have that and I'll have my EJ22T. If you don't go with different heads, you can certainly put in EJ22T rods and pistons. You can get them NEW from Crawford performance at a good price. I'm going to run a stand alone ECU so I don't even have to worry about wiring. But I DO have to worry about tuning. For abosolute power, you need turbo. That AWD 5spd tranny from that outback is still there at Rosemount. Get it! total will be like $89 and some cents! the pedal box is all still there. I took the pitch-mount, it happen to be the STi one. hehe
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AWDimprezaL being a little optomistic? a rio? i drove one to moorehead once...it wouldnt go over 93...i had it floored in 5th for about 4 miles, it took about a mile per mile an hour once i got past 90 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> It's not optimism when you've actually done it multiple times. Regularly goes 95mph on the interstate; traffic permiting of course. Confirmed top speed is 110mph.
You seriously need to go turbo to get max power. I'm only running 4.5 psi (wastegate) and I can walk all over a stock wrx. You can find used kits on nasioc for around 1G. Hopefully the kit will come with gauges and all that junk so you should be good there (if it doesn't you'll probably need boost, egt, and oil pressure... so that's around 350 for those.) The kit should come with at least a 2.5" downpipe, so all you'll need is a cat-back. I got a twin-tip stromung for around 500 shipped. And now the biggy, engine management. I went standalone because of the flexibility, if I want to upgrade anything, I don't have to change my engine management. You can go with a Tec system, a Link, or the Hydra. Anything else and you'd be in no-mans land for community support. So let's say you go with the hydra because that's what I have and I like it. That'll cost you 1650 with the wideband support. It's not too bad when you look at a Tec-3. Hopefully you and some buddies can install this stuff and you have all the supporting parts. Hmm... I forgot about injectors, fuel pump, and a fpr. So that's about 400 for all those. Let's look at the current total... 1000+500+1650+400 (assuming you don't need gauges and a gauge pod)= 3450. With this you can run about 6-7 psi reliably and beat on wrx's all day long. Or you can always find a used ej22t and buy the turbo kit and swap the larger turbo, injectors, and associated mods and run 18 psi daily. Good luck with more power, but don't forget the more power is usually going to mean more money spent on the car in the long run.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by snbrd4evr if it doesn't you'll probably need boost, egt, and oil pressure... so that's around 350 for those. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Why would you even bother with an EGT when you have a wideband? Screw the EGT, tells you nothing when you have a wideband. So lets just -$175 off your total price.
the question if you want peak power numbers, or if you want to maintain an even remotely even torque curve...peak power is great, and probably not that bad for the way you drive that car }. but low-end torque is nice too...ever ridden in bartzen's caddy, or brad's lincoln? that's low-end torque, you'll never get that much, but you could get alot. If you want the vtec-like kick in (traditionally called turbo-lag) slap on a turbo. If you want a nice even line of torque that builds up to your peak, build it up N/A. I vote for N/A!!! Oh yea, definately get an upgraded Torque Converter, and a TC cooler wouldn't be a bad idea too.
i know very little about orque converters. are they universal? or do i need to find a specail company that makes subie ones? remember guys i am not trying to turn my little scooby into the next super car (yet). i just want to get some more power to the ground. i would be super happy with 140-150 whp. so to rephrase my initial quesiton what would be the most effective way to get to 140-150 whp? preferably NA.
Delta cams, get them regrind to 264 degrees duration, and .4" lift I think. Sport the heads some, get Cobb headers because yours is a dual port. lightweight OR underdrive pullies, catback. maybe thinner head gaskets for increase compression.
i'll say what fuji said, but instead of a thin head gasket, go with 1.8 heads! that alone would put you in the 140 whp area...actually more like 130 but still, if it was a 5 speed it would put more power to the ground
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BlackDubRX <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by snbrd4evr if it doesn't you'll probably need boost, egt, and oil pressure... so that's around 350 for those. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Why would you even bother with an EGT when you have a wideband? Screw the EGT, tells you nothing when you have a wideband. So lets just -$175 off your total price. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> The wideband is merely a number that tells you how far off from stoich you are. EGT is a primary tuning number that's universal for all engines. You want to run a little under 1600 degrees during full boost. Now in a WRX you can run a fuel ratio like 11.8 under full boost but in our weaker engines they might heat up faster under boost and max out the temp at around 11.1. So EGT is very useful for tuning puposes. Right now my gauge isn't working so my tuning so far is to keep things running safely. When I get my EGT gauge working then I can lean it out a little more and get more power. I hope this helped and good luck with your quest for more power
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The wideband is merely a number that tells you how far off from stoich you are. EGT is a primary tuning number that's universal for all engines. You want to run a little under 1600 degrees during full boost. Now in a WRX you can run a fuel ratio like 11.8 under full boost but in our weaker engines they might heat up faster under boost and max out the temp at around 11.1. So EGT is very useful for tuning puposes. Right now my gauge isn't working so my tuning so far is to keep things running safely. When I get my EGT gauge working then I can lean it out a little more and get more power. I hope this helped and good luck with your quest for more power <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Max temp for what? exhaust components? You're not going to fry an exhaust and saying you're going to melt the engine is just rediculous. You're looking at EGT, how hot do you think the cylinders and pistons are from gas igniting in them. When you tune, you tune for 10:1-12:1 depending what gas, where your detonation threshold is on that particular engine, and how you want your timing/boost setup.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AWDimprezaL i'll say what fuji said, but instead of a thin head gasket, go with 1.8 heads! that alone would put you in the 140 whp area...actually more like 130 but still, if it was a 5 speed it would put more power to the ground <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> what compression would the 1.8 heads put me at?
"If I had to have only one gauge for tuning it would be EGT. EGTs relay how complete the combustion process is and whether you have the proper ignition timing to AFR ratio regardless of boost pressure. Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com" Check out http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673369&highlight=egt+tuning it has some great information for tuning afr's and egt's. They really go hand in hand, and when you engine gets too hot it typically detonates due to increased temperatures. But this is waaaay off topic and I'm sorry for bringing it up. I remember reading somewhere on nasioc about a guy that wanted to use the ej22t block and build a high compression monster but I'm on dial up right now and it took me long enough to find the above link so I think I'm going to leave it up to you to find it. Good luck with everything. I got bored so I went to find the link... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631527&highlight=high+compression
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by snbrd4evrRight now my gauge isn't working <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> If you find a place that sells EGT senders that'll work with a Westach gauge (I think most senders are pretty standard) let me know, I've gotta replace mine too.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dynapar what would be the best upgrade path for my car (2.2l AWD NA impreza LX) to make it a decently quick street car. .. i want to keep it NA. i dont have the money to be messing with turbos.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> ) ) a sheet of those stickers is way cheaper than a turbo...
those stickers should say "Engine Blow" and "Cracked Cylinder Walls". i looked at the pics from teh WRX with a 75 shot. i dont want my block to look like that.
dont you realise that 2.2s were crafted by the hand of god? they cant blow i mean look at the abuse fuji's has gone through
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AWDimprezaL dont you realise that 2.2s were crafted by the hand of god? they cant blow i mean look at the abuse fuji's has gone through <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> very true, his motor has been to hell and back, and there again! i still dont wanna mess w/ spray.
