Polished hood

Discussion in 'Photo & Video Gallery' started by travail, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    lol, I just meant the white board thing. I like them and all, its just that most of my classes have been behind one.


    I learned how to do triple integrals in polar coordinates from a white board. After that, anything is possible. Bring it on.
     
  2. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    That's the spirit.
     
  3. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    Also: Buttholes.
     
  4. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    so could this be classed as a polished turd??
     
  5. Dynapar
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    Dynapar Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone seen the episode of topgear where they create Geoff the electric car? They came into a sun related issue while test driving it, and I would assume this may have a similar issue.

    Truth.
     
  6. Michael48
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    Michael48 Member

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    I'm not a fan, and I like evo's. Way to much work to keep clean even if I did like it.

    Oh as far as radar goes, reflection is how they read with radar laser I believe. The ideal system would be a material that would slow down the refractive speed of the light. Light travels at around 180,000 miles per sec and diamond for example will slow that light down drastically 100,000 miles down to 80,000 miles per second. (I am a jeweler) Even water will slow and bend tight as most people know. So the idea would be to slow the light to alter the read speed for the police, or scrambler I believe will send a false speed reading back to the officer. Polished and shiny is very bad, I believe that is why we have high reflective license plates (required on front and rear of cars) so the vehicle is easy to radar.
     
  7. turbo_turtle
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    turbo_turtle Well-Known Member

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    You're forgetting about emissivity. Different paint colors and finishes have different emissivity. The lower the emissivity, the less radio waves will bounce back. You are also forgetting about diffusion. Flat black paint will diffuse a laser beam much more than a glossy color.
    The range matters significantly because (like gravity), radio waves propagate threw space with power being the inverse square of the distance. In Earth's atmosphere, the power is reduced even more, especially at sea-level due to losses in propagation. Certain radio waves (the higher ones) will be partially absorbed by water and oxygen in the air. A police radar/laser is relatively low power, so it can't accurately detect beyond a few miles. Nonetheless, you would need quadruple the laser power going from an object at 1 mile versus 2 miles. Ever heard that police laser doesn't work in rain or fog? That's because they use infrared, and that is absorbed and diffracted by water, much like visible light is. Police radar (works at a lower frequency) will easily penetrate fog and rain.
    You are confusing the Doppler effect with reflection and refraction. Speed is read from the Doppler effect. Slowing light (or any other radio waves) down is refraction. Regardless of the speed or slowing of speed of radio waves, that will not change the results of Doppler. Reflection is what allows the signal to bounce back. License plates are made extra reflective in only the visible light range, not other radio waves.

    ~Dan
     
  8. FuJi K
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    FuJi K Well-Known Member

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    I saw one!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. phi11
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    phi11 Well-Known Member

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    ^yeah, I see it everyday.....
     
  10. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Emissivity doesn't matter in radio waves, at least not as much as you are making it out. Sure, you will deflect a good portion of the signal, but keep in mind the scale of what we are talking about. Just because when you run your hand over it it doesn't feel glass smooth, doesn't mean there isn't a very VERY large amount of that surface that is providing a surface perpendicular to the incoming signal. And like I said, you would have to absorb every single photon of the incoming laser for it not to reflect back. If you can see the dot, the device can see the dot.

    There is also PRF and Modulation. You could slow that signal as much as you want, the underlying information in that signal can't be changed. And the problem most people have is that they see a drawing of a waveform, and they think that is the actual representation of the waves in the air without reference markers to show them what the amplitude and frequency is. Do any of you know just how fast microwaves pulse? We're talking Gigahertz, BILLIONS of times per SECOND.
    I think it is time to add PRF and Modulation to my Radar Blog thing.
     
  11. Tim the Plumber
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    Tim the Plumber Well-Known Member

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    who ever wants to borrow this.... go for it....
     
  12. turbo_turtle
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    turbo_turtle Well-Known Member

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    Might want to double check that. A black colored surface will usually have the extreme opposite end of emissivity versus a polished aluminum surface.

    ~Dan
     
  13. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    With regards to what part of the EM spectrum? If you are telling me that flat black lacquer finish is somehow this magical void for EM radiation, then no, I wont even consider doublechecking. Yes, the rougher the surface, the less reflected signal is returned...obviously. What I'm saying is this, you are sending out billions of waves in a 1second pulse. That wave isn't some 1 demensional vector of light, it has a width and height and length. Wave patterns are going to have volume. When a volume of EM radiation strikes an object, yes, there will be deflected information, but microwave radiation really doesn't give ten ****s about what color your surface is. Information still gets back to the receiver and is still going to be processed. Especially with what is probably a 1W transmitter, and fired within a 1 mile range. For visible light spectrum and probably a good part of the IR subset, yeah, you can absorb lots of it with flat black paint. But the surface of your car is just a couple millimeters of paint on a metal or plastic surface.

    If you want to stop radar from detecting you as a car, you will need some way of completely attenuating the signal at < or = 1 mile. Stealth countermeasures don't work for cars vs. cops at 1 mile distances. Preach flat black coatings all you want. I'm telling you that there is no substance available to you that you can spray on your car to defeat laser and radar detection systems.

    And regardless, the best you can hope to achieve is to reduce your object's signature. That doesn't matter to a cop's radar gun, because a radar gun's job isn't to determine if you are a car or not. It's job is to determine the speed of the object in the crosshairs. That's why you can use them to determine how fast some kid is pitching a baseball. All it knows is that the object in it's ROI is travelling at X speed relative to it. In radar, there are usually two types, search radar and tracking radar. Search radar is used to find objects that are of a certain signature size, speed and heading. Tracking arrays are usually mechanically pointed at objects acquired by a search system. With regards to police radar guns, the cop's eyes are the search system, he see's your car coming down the freeway...that is acquisition...he see's your object, and can tell that by it's size and shape, it is a car. So, first you have to defeat or hinder the ability of the search system to identify you as an object of interest. A black car, flat or glossy, at 1 mile on an open interstate, surrounded by green grass and trees, and a blue sky, isn't going to pass that test. Regardless, once the cop has "acquired" you as a target, he is going to then point his radar tracking device at you. He already knows you are a car, so any countermeasures you have to reduce your car's profile are now pointless, as it didn't defeat acquisition. All he has to do is keep you inside of the radar device's receive aperature long enough to collect a few pulses of data that he's sent at you. Now we play the odds game...even if you have coated your car in graphite and ferrous materials, about 1/4 of an inch thick, and then on top of that, you've put up little graphite pyramids all over your car that form 90* angles with their adjacent pyramids on all sides, you still WILL NOT absorb all sent radiaton, nor will you entirely deflect all radiation. You will still have at least one surface somewhere on your car that forms a perpendicular plane to the incoming radiowaves and on that surface, you will not absorb every single radiowave as you are not a blackhole. You may gain a fraction of a second of time, as the receiver of teh device may filter results. But it'll see enough of them that it WILL detect you, and it WILL give the police your speed.

    Again, as I said before, emissivity doesn't matter with regards to this scenario. If the cop had to physically see the laser dot on your car to get a reading, then yeah, flat black your car...he will have trouble seeing it at 1 mile. But that is because he is using eyes, not a detector array that is made to see just the wavelengths that the emitter is firing off. I don't know how the laser system works with regard to things like PRF and if it uses any kind of modulated information. So I can't comment there.

    And I'll tell you right now, that if the US Navy knew that this magical flat black paint existed, then our ships wouldn't be painted light, semi gloss "haze gray."