Whats in your suspension?

I'm trying to decide where I'm going to go with my suspension, so I was just wondering what everybody else is using, and how they like/dislike it. Tein flex kit was at the top of my list, but I'm hearing some bad stuff about rust. I'm driving my car all year for at least the next 2 years so corossion resistance would be a plus. Would i just be better off with a spring shock combo and a much lower cost?

 

I'm using 04 sti struts with sti prodrive springs and cobb rear swaybar and endlinks on my02 wrx for 2yrs. And it handles pretty good on turns.

John

 

Tokico D-Spec Strut and Spring Combo

 

Prodrive Springs, Groupe N Strut Tops, Progress Rear Sway Bar

Planning to go with some Zeal Coilovers when I win the lottery :biggrin:

 

^Aren't u still selling your car?

 

:hsugh:

 

Prodrive springs, stock struts and stock swaybars for now.... Till next summer

 

Prodrive springs, stock struts

 

Tein Flex Master control Coilovers 10kg/8kg....

 

Prodrive springs on stock struts, installing my KYB AGX's after the winter.

 

If you dont plan on removing your suspension every winter and putting in a stock one then don't get coilovers. No matter what you get you wont find any off the shelf coilovers that are appropriate for winters in MN.

If you want a sprng/strut combo go with KYB AGX (4 way adjustable, about as much as you're probably ever going to need) and pick springs based on stiffness that is appropriate for your driving level, not based on what rate they lower the car at. Or you can get a coilover sleeves like ground control makes and you will have more control over ride height overall. STi pinks are ok, Espelir makes good springs, there is a lot to look at. The most common mistake people make is having an oversprung/underdamped setup (stock struts with stiffer than stock springs, or stiffer springs than the struts they are running, or blown struts). Its also possible to be overdamped and undersprung although its a lot harder with adjustable struts.

as for swaybars, most major brands are pretty similar, jsut make sure you don't put a very large rear swaybar on and not compensate by bumping up the front swaybar as well. After you have all of that taken care of you can get more into tuning the suspension and add things like adjustable lateral links, camber plates etc.

you don't need strut tower braces unless you have an pre 2002 chassis or a wagon.

 

Yeah, I'm running that along with a 20mm RSB. I'm looking to get a set of Koni inserts down the road -- the Prodrives KILLED my shocks on my old car, hehehe (had 'em on for ~45k miles). I'd also like to upgrade my 20mm RSB to something bigger and get a matching bar up front. Finally, I'm thinking of getting a Whiteline rear strut bar for my wagon.

And finally don't forget that a good alignment is something to not skimp on, either!

 

Teins are now teflon coated so they won't rust. Read my sig for my suspension mods.

 

^^ very true and that's a fact

link http://www.tein.com/flexdamp.html

 

I'm sorry, but the winter driving will degrade them in the same way as any other kind of strut. It doesn't matter what they coat it with, salt will eventually degrade everything it seeps into, not just the housings. It also still wont make the dampening appropriate for winter driving especially on snow or any loose surfaces. unless you have an incredibly large range of adjustment (which the Tein flex's don't have)

bump the struts down and it will be underdamped and jumpy. And since they're not double adjustable (clicking the knob is adjusting compression and rebound simultaneously and at prespecified and unknown stops made by the factory) you will be making it more dangerous by lowering the dampening when it does snow. Overall you're better off with a stock suspension over coilovers during the winter. A softer car grips better in that it has more tension to play with before it hits ultimate grip, a stiff car on a cold slick road is going to be much more dangerous to drive.

the third thing I'd suggest is getting something other than tein flex's. Tein coilvoers arent bad, they hold the car off the ground, look ok and now apparently don't have such awful rust issues, but they're way overstiff for street driving. most people thik of this as "ah well i don't mind a few extra bumps, or i'm not a weenie i can take a harsh ride" but its not about that. all coilovers will have a bumpy harsh ride compared to stock suspensions, but if the car is taking flight after even small bumps your grip and ability to control the car is nil. Most of the guys on here aren't racing these cars and don't need off the shelf coilovers which to be honest most of which are setup more for the track than streets anyway.

 

Once again, Zak is right. lol.

If anyone on the boards knows suspension, it's definitely him.

 

i agree with Zak, and have seen most of the same stuff he has.

Figured i might as well post my summer setup, mainly built for autocross purposes:

JIC FLT-A2 Coil Overs 8k/7k (planning on getting 8k rear springs before summer)
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar
Helix Rear Endlinks
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway Bar
Whiteline HD Front Endlinks
Whiteline Adjustable Rear Lateral Links
Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings
17"x8" Gold Rota Boost
245/40-17 Hankook Ventus RS-2 Z212 (Coming Summer 07)
Carbotech Bobcat Brake Pads
Valvoline Synthetic DOT-4+ Brake Fluid

Don't forget, it's not all about the parts, but the way their setup and adjusted.
The wrong setup can leave your awesome parts fighting each other and killing your handling.

 

The other guru speaks!

 

So what I'm getting here is that unless I'm building a track car I'm better off getting some springs and shocks. That being said are there any camber issues with the lowering? Also has any one tried tokico hp's (the blue ones). Had those in my VW with Eibach sportline springs. slightly oversprung but they did an admirable job controling them...

 

LOL...
The Suby-Suspension Bros

 

Anytime you replace spings/shocks you should get an alignment done. I would also suggest picking up a set of rear camber bolts while you're at it.

 

agree on the allignment...i've done all my own susp. work and there's been some pretty interesting trips to the allignment shop afterwards...

 

lmao! At least you made it there in one piece, hehehe.

The last time we put in a set of springs, I made marks on the front camber bolts and used a carpenter's level on the rear hubs to get things as even as possible while I waited to take a trip to Nathan's shop for an alignment.

 

I don't have to go very far, no freeway speeds so it's not too bad.
Kind off topic, but what kind of power do yo usually see with an open ecu.reflash, and a full exhaust w/up. No cats in system.

 

Tokico isnt quite a big of a name with subaru as it is with a lot of other brands. The Dspec struts are pretty nice, theyre a good option for a street car, I'd say a step above the KYB AGX. Its really hard to beat the KYB AGX struts for street driving. Same manufacturer as all stock subaru suspensions, good fit, relatively easy to adjust, enough dampening for your average spirited street driven car with a set of aggressive off the shelf racing springs (going to be hard to find stock style springs over 350-400 lbs anyways, but it will cover up to about that much fine on the top two settings) and theyre cheap too (~$500 a set, not inserts so they swap in directly, if you buy springs at the same time it will make the install faster)

as far as camber, it will induce more static negative camber to lower the car, but thats a good thing, you just want to make sure its even. without camber plates the front suspension is never going to go past -1.3 to -1.5 camber anyways, but you want to even it out alignment wise as much as possible. subarus come with camber bolts in front, if you want more adjustability out of them you can get some replacement ones from whiteline or ingalls that allow an extra ~0.5 degrees of adjustment. The rears do not have camber bolts, you would need to buy some camber bolts for those.

my new car setup:

-Koni yellow double adjustable inserts
-Ground Control coilover sleeves w/ custom rate eibach springs (rate still unsure until car gets weighed)
-Whiteline 24mm adjustable rear swaybar
-Whiteline 22mm front swaybar
-Whiteline heavy duty front endlinks
-Helix heavy duty rear endlinks
-Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links
-Cusco front camber plates swapped left to right to allow for camber and caster adjustment
-Whiteline steering rack busings
-Whiteline front control arm bushings
-Whiteline removable rear strut tower brace

*This is intended as the best possible autocross/daily driver setup. will require a less aggressive alignment than I am used to but still be race tire friendly and have the best range of adjustability and reliability on the open road. one advantage to the GC/koni setup for daily driving is that koni inserts have a lifetime warranty as well as ground control coilovers... so if anything breaks you're covered.

Setups I have had on previous subarus

Hyper Banana:


- 1st set) STi Version 5 struts and springs
- 2nd set) Cusco Zero 2-R coliovers with 13k springs in front, 10k in the rear w/ left to right camber plate swap for castor adjustment
-FHI 21mm rear swaybar
-FHI 20mm front swaybar
-Whiteline V1 front and rear endlinks
-STi group N rear strut tops
-really, really, really aggressive alignment (-3.0 degrees front camber, 4.5 degrees caster, -1.6 degrees rear camber)


Probably the best steering on smooth pavement worst steering on rough pavement setup I've ever driven. Was not tolerant of sudden jolts, but turned as if on rails on anything smooth. Easy to drift with an open rear diff. Uncomfortable in the extreme for daily driving. not currently the way the car is setup, I went back to stock on the struts and springs to sell it.


2002 2.5RS


- 1st set) Stock struts with eibach pro-kit springs (I believe this still lives on in tim213514353145's car. Which does prove that the eibachs wear the stock struts pretty well. Nice springs on teh highway, a bit soft for racing)
-2nd set) Version 7 STi Spec C type RA inverted struts and springs
-Helix 22mm adjustable rear swaybar on full stiff
-Helix rear endlinks
-Whiteline heavy duty front endlinks with stock front bar
-Cusco camber plates switched left to right in castor adjustable position
-Greddy front strut tower brace (removed after a week or so, was useless)
- aggressive autocross alignment at -2.5 degrees front camber, -5 degrees(!) castor, -1.2 degrees rear camber

*I sold all of this stuff with the car, wanted to move on to something else. a little oversteery for daily driving, the back end had no trouble moving around (spun almost a little too easily in hard transition autocrossing, but had the most vicious and nice rear end step out under hard braking with slight inertia) trail braking was an invitation to see where you were just coming from real quick. Slightly not stiff enough for autocrossing, best street suspension I have ever driven, period. Oversteer issues might be annoying for wintertime though, rear bar was dialed back to loosest position then to make it liveable. Still rides around with this setup, apparently the new owner loves it, everything was plenty durable enough for daily driving.

 

I have the D-Spec Combo on mine and It does take a while to break it in...Again I don't drive my car enough already...After the tokico install maybe drove it around 2000 miles tops...It is just getting a bit smoothier...The shocks are able to be dampened I think 16 way, I'm not to sure...I set mine @ 10 and with the spring combo being close to stock spring rate maybe a 20-30% increase in stiffness. It is very soft almost like the Stock WRX feel, but does feel a bit better on corner, not much because I didn't go agressive with the setting...If I were to do it all over again, I would change the spring to the Prodrives, Crucial or the Teins for street use and use Tokicos with it...I feel that is a good combo considering I have the D-SPec Struts already. The spring I'm not to fond of because it makes noise. (Clanking noise, when I hit the right bump on the road) Need some sort of Spring Cushion.

 

I have DMS 40s with Groupe N top hats rear and MRT adjustable top plates on the front. It's nice to be able to even out (especially on the wagon) and raise the ride height a little for winter driving. The ride is a bit more bobble head but not to bad. I have to play with the adjusters a bit more to see what is best.

 

Does anybody going with aftermarket springs on Subis have a problem with hitting the bump stops? They all seem to be shorter, but I haven't checked the spring rates versus stock.

 

Prodrive springs W/ KYB gr-2 struts
Whiteline rear sway bar
not sure about front
Strut tower braces f+r

 

Autocrossing on eibach pro kits and stock struts I could ride relatively long turns entirely on the bump stops. You could remove and trim the bump stops, but that's not really fixing the problem so much. You can also get aftermarket bump stops from various suspension builder/rebuilders that have different shapes and different compounds.

the real problem is the strut is poorly dampened enough for the springs and is allowing contact with the bump stop at all.

 

Is it all the strut? My experience with F-bodies showed me that most spring manufacturers are dumber than doornails. Most were softer than stock, and all were shorter. That goes for Eibach and Hotchkis.