02 WRX or 04 STi... spending limit

Discussion in 'General Subaru Discussion' started by Boddah27, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. Boddah27
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    Boddah27 Guest

    This was inspired by Speedemon's thread. I currently own a stock '02 WRX. I have held off on modifying it because I am thinking about getting an STi instead. My question is: with around $14,000 (my predicted summer car funds) to invest, should I spend around $10,000 on trading in for an STi with $4,000 to mod, or dump all of it into the WRX?

    Thanks,
    Nick
     
  2. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion: STI, no question. There is really no amount of money you could spend on a WRX to make it anything close to what the STI is.

    (this is coming from a Stage 4 WRX owner, FYI)
     
  3. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    Exactly what Zola said. You get soo much more in a STI.

    Former WRX owner current STI owner
     
  4. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    I have 15,000 invested in my car, and I wouldn't trade it in for an STi. But I do agree that an STi has a much better starting point to go off of. But for not too much, you can drop forged internals into your 2.0L block...and with a little tuning and a bigger turbo, you would be able to stomp a mudhole in an STi. 14,000 will get you alot of wicked mods. Check into a 2.4L stroked block from Crawford Performance, or a block from Cobb. If I had it to do over again, I would have bought a stripped down 2.5 RS and dropped in a worked block with all the trimmings. In fact, you might even consider selling your WRX, buying a 2.5RS and doing such a project. It will net you another 8 grand or so for mods...can you imagine what you could do to a car with 22,000 for modding purposes.
     
  5. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Here is another way to view this situation.

    If you don't plan on modding too much, but just want a car that is wicked fast right off the lot...and maybe toss in a few parts later on...get the STi

    If you want a car that you can mod the hell out of, get a 2.5RS, or keep your WRX, and tune the crap out of it.

    I didn't get an STi, because I wanted my car to be MY car. The STi is nice, but I didn't have 30K + 14K for mods to spend on a car. The only really limiting and expensive factor of the WRX that makes the STi a great deal for the tuner, is the addition of the 6 speed tranny. It is far superior to the 5 speed in the WRX in terms of power handling. But an STi RA gearset can be had for around 1500 bucks. And that will withstand some serious abuse. Think through all your options before you decide on an STi.
     
  6. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, lots to respond to there. It is relatively easy to make a WRX go faster than an STi, but you will blow most of your budget to do so and be left with (in comparison to the STi) inferior braking, inferior suspension, inferior transmission.

    RA gearsets sound nice but the conventional wisdom about the 5MT is that it is shafts flexing from increased torque that breaks them, not weak gears. Crawford block is a wet dream but do you know how long the waiting list is for those? Cobb block probably wouldn't arrive at your door until our Lord Jesus Christ again walks this earth.

    If you focus on one aspect of the STi's performance, it's well within your means to outdo it using the WRX as your starting point. But you just can't match the whole package.
     
  7. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    He has a 14,000 budget for mods...you can easily out accelerate and out brake and out handle an STi for that money. Do I need to break out my mod list and calculator.
     
  8. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    k, I confused the 4,000 and 14,000 figures. I still think it's lunacy to expect a WRX + 14,000 of mods to be anything close to what an STi + 4,000 of mods can be, or as resellable if that's a consideration.

    This has been played out in countless threads on NASIOC, so save your calculator and just link to one of them.
     
  9. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    How about your moded WRX versus my moded STI? }:) bring your cash!

    The fact is the STI is a better way to start hands down.
     
  10. wall of tvs
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    wall of tvs Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

    Exactly what Zola said. You get soo much more in a STI.

    Former WRX owner current STI owner
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    ....like a warranty and a car that won't drop in value as much down the road.

    If I had the extra funds, I'd ditch my wagon in a heartbeat for an STi.
     
  11. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Woah, calm down there Brian O'Connor. Save the brow-beating and the showboating for someone who cares. I don't know what kind of race your challenge implies, but whatever it is, I wouldn't put any money of mine on it. You can save the betting for your F&F pals.

    And it is agreed that the STi is a better starting platform. But what do you plan on doing with your car? If you are track driving or auto-xing, then putting 5000 into suspension and braking will make you very happy, especially with an Up Pipe and Downpipe and some engine management. And what does a warranty have anything to do with STi vs. WRX? You get a warranty with either car.

    As for reliability, if I am not mistaken, doesn't the STi have problems with spiking, and lean issues caused by injectors operating at almost 100% of their ability.
     
  12. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    Well I deliberately left warranty out of the discussion because if you are spending thousands in mods on either car, you might as well take your warranty paperwork and light it on fire.

    The WRX is no stranger to heavily-taxed injectors either. ;)
     
  13. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    "The WRX is no stranger to taxed injectors"

    lol, roger that :)
     
  14. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by readymix_wrx

    Woah, calm down there Brian O'Connor. Save the brow-beating and the showboating for someone who cares. I don't know what kind of race your challenge implies, but whatever it is, I wouldn't put any money of mine on it. You can save the betting for your F&F pals.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    First off Jason, my name is Matt. Second, your grasp of the facts are slightly skewed. Both Zola and I have been in Subi's since 01 when they first came out. We have quite a grasp of what it takes to make them go fast.

    Care to enlighten us what F&F pals is?

    Point being before you come on here be prepaired to back up your statements, which to this point are flawed. fact!
     
  15. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    F&F...Fast & Furious.

    The reason I got a little off the handle there is because your challange sounded just like every other person I encounter that wants to race. Forgive me for getting off on the wrong foot here, but it happened way too often in San Diego, to the point where I wouldn't go to some of the meets because alot of people felt the need to go off like that. It sounded way to much like a street race challenge, so I wrote you off...and I apologize.

    Now for the meat of the conversation. If you have a specific purpose in mind, such as auto-x and maybe light track use, why not stick with your WRX, put 6K or so into suspension and minor power mods and have a nice car for that purpose. A Cobb Stg2 power setup will get you close to stock STi power standards...a nice set of coilovers and some swaybars, decent pads and fluids for your brakes and you have a contender. And you still have a ton of cash left over to do whatever else you wanted to your car.
     
  16. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I thought the F&F comment was funny. :D
     
  17. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    LOL F&F I guess I should have got that one.

    Done, no harm no foul. Point was that money in either car the STI will be faster.

    I understand your point 100% but I still disagree with you for this reason. His point was 14k in a wrx or 4k in a STI. If you did EM, injectors, TBE, turbo on a STI you would be out of your buget just to try and match that. You would have none of the other goodies DCCD, Brembo, Alum. trailing arms, 6 speed, front diff, and so on.

    Another thought I have on this which is more twards you point of thinking I believe. Your point about the suspension and a track car, yes I agree with you from a different perspective.

    Example: A 100% stock WRX (engine/tranny wise) with a great set-up of suspension and bakes with a 100% driver will be faster than a 100% driver in a STI. But mod for mod the STI will be better.
     
  18. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Now we are seeing more eye to eye. I guess I take into account driving skill in the two cars. Plus I always love the whole "winning on a budget" thing.

    I am glad you are ok with that joke. Honestly, I thought the F&F joke was going to be a gut buster, sorry you didn't get it right away, but I am glad you can appreciate it now. ;) I saw myself sounding like a pretentious ass there for a minute, so I figured I would duck out with some comic relief. Glad it's no harm no foul :)
     
  19. Boddah27
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    Boddah27 Guest

    Thanks for all of the replies everybody. I have a while to think as this isn't going to happen until mid-late summer. Right now I'm leaning towards trying to find an STi... especially since they are depreciating faster than my car :p.

    Seems like I should give a better idea of what I want out of my car to help you help me, so here it goes. I want to be able to drive it around without worrying about anything (in favor of STi), and do some track racing as well. Of course my main goal is to be able to pull up next to some CEO's Ferrari and make his laughs turn into awe as my funny looking little 4 door shoots ahead of his LeMans inspired supercar :D.

    One thing that would be really helpful is to list what mods you would recommend for the WRX ($14,000)/STi ($4,000). I know I could look elsewhere to find this info, but if you have this stuff on the top of your head and are bored, feel free to post it.

    Edit: can the STi handle a larger shot of N20? Seems like it should...
     
  20. RexN
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    RexN Well-Known Member

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  21. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Boddah27


    One thing that would be really helpful is to list what mods you would recommend for the WRX ($14,000)/STi ($4,000). I know I could look elsewhere to find this info, but if you have this stuff on the top of your head and are bored, feel free to post it.

    Edit: can the STi handle a larger shot of N20? Seems like it should...
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    N2O does not belong on a turbo car. If you want more power get a bigger turbo! The only use for N2O would be to spool a huge turbo at launch. Shakes head
     
  22. BlackDubRX
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    BlackDubRX New Member

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    I agree, if you build your car right you will have no need for N2O anyways.
     
  23. Boddah27
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    Boddah27 Guest

    No nitrous? A local shop owner has tuned lots of import engines and stuff like that and uses nitrous with turbos... he didn't seem to think that it was a bad idea.

    I've actually heard that the drop in temperature that the nitrous provides will help it give more power to a forced induction engine than it would to a N/A one. (nitrous is injected at -127°F)
     
  24. bikerboy
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    bikerboy Subie GOD Staff Member

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    Do as you wish but put me first on the list for the blown motor.

    Why dont you ask you tuner how the Aluminum block with Nickisil liners will react to the large increase in cylinder preasure? I would like to hear his opinions.
     
  25. Boddah27
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    Boddah27 Guest

    I don't plan on using nitrous when the engine already at full boost... just to have fun racing cars i wouldn't otherwise be able to beat in a drag. I'd only use it after short shifting into second to get the boost up or in similar scenarios. This is gettin kinda off topic :)
     
  26. BlackDubRX
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    BlackDubRX New Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Boddah27

    No nitrous? A local shop owner has tuned lots of import engines and stuff like that and uses nitrous with turbos... he didn't seem to think that it was a bad idea.

    I've actually heard that the drop in temperature that the nitrous provides will help it give more power to a forced induction engine than it would to a N/A one. (nitrous is injected at -127°F)
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Remember that some blocks are aluminum, some are iron, etc. Has he done any scoobies with n2o?
     
  27. Boddah27
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    Boddah27 Guest

    He hasn't worked on any Subarus, so I'm inclined to listen to you guys over him :). He said that he was interested in working on one and that he's going to try and learn as much as he can about them.

    Thanks again for all of the replies.
     
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