1st to 2nd shifting

I am wondering how "bad" is it to break your tires loose going from 1st to 2nd gear? I did a semi hard launch (I've never ever just dumped the clutch from a stop, I feather it till about 5mph then let it out) and when I went to 2nd gear, I broke the tires loose pretty good. Today on the way home from work more so then I have the few other times before.

Then came a very fun smell of burning cabbage which it seems I've heard before is oil getting scorched smells like that. The smell went away pretty quickly. I do not beat on my car by any means. But now and then I will romp on it just for fun and a few of those times have involved 1st-2nd shift that broke the tires loose.

So how bad can it be?

 

what exactly are you asking? how bad is it for the tires? for the gear box? the smell?

 

Overall, but I assume the gearbox is the hardest hit item eh? I couldn't care less about the stock tires

 

Well and more to the point I guess...much like feathering the clutch and not dumping it on a launch, do you want to avoid also shifting so hard from 1st to 2nd that the tires break loose?

 

do you mean breaking the tires loose as in spinning them when you throw into second?

 

Quick 1 2 = bad

That's the worst combo in Impreza history. 1st is a tall gear, shifting hard and quick into second could result in a death rattle someday.

 

OK that's what I was wondering. Looks like I wont be doing that anymore.

So how do you guys shift from 1st to 2nd and not break them loose?

 

yah not good not good! what kinda car is it?


Tim

 

2005 WRX

 

some please explain to me what this breaking them loose means, i dont know cars very well i just enjoy driving them, so TEACH ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Break them loose = Spin the tires.

 

thats what i thought, i guess i just dont get how you guys can do that unless youre like super modded

 

If you shift hard enough you can do it from 1st to 2nd and I've gotten a little chirp from 2nd to 3rd. I have no mods.

But anyways I would still be curious what the best way to go from 1-2 is? I suppose not flooring it and/or dropping the clutch as fast, but then you end up nose diveing pretty hard and I seen to bog down a little bit too and drop out of the power band briefly.

 

sounds like your smelling clutch...not cool how a bout you take it easy, wrx trannys arent exactly strong... it also doesnt sound like you know how to drive a stick...2-3 chirp? are you kidding me? you must have had it bouncing off the rev limiter and then dumped it into 3rd

 

Never had it over it over 6500 rpm once. I know how to drive a stick fine, thanks for assuming though . I have driven mostly V8 performance cars and breaking them loose going 1-2 and 2-3 is not that big of a deal. However being this is my first AWD car and I am not sure on the "do's and don'ts" of power shifting a AWD, I've merely been trying to gauge here:

1. How hard on a AWD is chirping the 1-2 shift? As bad as a "dumped clutch" launch? Obviously not something you want to do everytime you shift, I'm not implying that. I am talking about straight line launches only.

2. What is the best way to do the 1-2 shift while maintaining the best acceleration?

 

Unfortunately there isn't a safe way to shift 1-2 without getting a little bit of that drop. It's just the way the cars are geared. This wasn't as much of an issue with my RS as it could pull hard at pretty much any RPM but I'm guessing it may be even more of a problem with the EJ20s.

 

I've only had it chirp a TINY bit on 1-2 gear with my AWD. It's VERY rare for this to happen. BUT I do get inlift (inside wheel spin) when powering out of slow speed turns, which is the suckors! I loose aceleration when this happens. time for front LSD or bigger front sway bar.

 

quote]
2-3 chirp? are you kidding me? you must have had it bouncing off the rev limiter and then dumped it into 3rd[/quote]

exactly, thats why i was confused, ive never gotten a chirp, even if i shift as fast as i can :?

 

^^^^once again i dont know what im doing

 

mine too...i light up the two inside tires like crazy, 2.2 torque baby!

 

I've only broken the tires loose on the 2-3 shift once...perhaps there was some sand or something on the road but they definately did chirp. But 1-2 shift I can do it every time.

I'm not going to be doing it that hard again though till I get the 1-2 shift down better so I don't cause my tranny to eat itself.

 

hmm

 

You guys are crazy, power shifting, burning clutches... I wish my DSM would take that kind of abuse with the turbo I have on it :evil:

As far as chirping the WRX.. Never done it unless I was launching, no 1-2, no 2-3, ever when I shift as fast as I can... Of course I'm not going to power shift though.

 

Bear in mind too I have stock tires. If I had 225's (which rims and tires I plan to get next after tint and Stonegard on the front end) I bet I would have a harder time chirping 1-2 and 2-3 definately not.

 

"breaking them loose" in an awd is a good way to grenade your tranny. The cabage smell is burning clutch. It may happen when your clutch is new and breaking in and it will definately happen if you drop the cluth. With all four tires grabbing, you have twice the traction of an 8-banger so breaking them loose means you are putting twice the load on the gears and twice the torque on the gear shafts.

Launching an awd is a lot different than launching an 8 banger. I'm sure others here will have better advice so I will only post what I do. I bring the revs up to 4k to get the turbo boosting and when I let off the cluth I don't drop it I feather it in and shift to second when the rpm's hit 6k then punch it. On the WRX you should be able to hit 60 in second gear around 6k.

WRX's aren't meant to take off and leave rubber, they are designed to throw you in the back seat when you hit second gear. First gear is pretty steep and if you drop the cluth on it you're gonna end up with a $1500 dollar repair bill and a Vette driver laughing his butt off at you.

 

Thank you bluebaru06, exactly what I was looking for So you just hold it at 4k RPM till the clutch is out then immediately shift to 2nd then punch it? I'm just wondering how hard you accelerate in 1st.

 

That's why you smelt burnt clutch... just let it out.

 

Just keep in mind when you're toying with your car that the tranny is "fragile." A ton of people have chewed off gears doing seemingly so little. It's the same tranny that's used in the NA cars, not beefed up. It's fine for the 160hp NA engine, but it gets closer to its limits when shoved in a WRX.

Stories are quite conflicting. Some people seem to clutch drop their WRXs from 6k repeatedly with no problems, other seem to chew off teeth simply from a half bad shift into the next gear. Maybe quality control varies that much, or maybe it's just a matter of details and the tiny differences people have when shifting. A slow engagement from 6k will not strain your gears nearly as much as popping the clutch out in 2nd when idling at 50mph.

Subaru trannies are the most finicy I've come across. It doesn't help that they don't shift smooth, but the clutches aren't dampened like a lot of cars and essentially move at the speed of your foot. If you pop your foot off, the clutch engages at that speed. A slip of the foot and being a 1000 rpm off can cause some serious bucking of the car, especially in low gears. Foot control is very important.

I think for being fast as well as smooth and safe, you really need to spend some time learning the feel of the clutch and transmssion. Get used to the feel, how the clutch disengages/engages, how the shifter feels moving in and out of gears, and how the engine behaves when blipping the throttle to match revs. It's a lot about timing. When everything is timed right, your shifts are golden and near instant. When you're off, you'll feel it...hard, usually with a nice lurch or buck. Practice, practice, practice. That's about all you can do to get fast without loss of power or time.

I've seen a ton of people complain about 1st to 2nd gear shifting, a lot of "how do I..." threads asking how to shift smoothly from 1st into 2nd. Frankly, it's no different than other gears. I think the gear ratios just throw people off, that and you're still getting a lot of torque from the engine in those low gears meaning you'll really feel errors. I've driven my Forester for a year and a half. 2nd gear is still the hardest gear to shift smoothly and quickly, and for the most part, I'm still not silky smooth with it unless I'm doing a little clutch slipping. Some days you're on, some days you're off. There isn't much more than practicing.


p.s.
I second the how could you break it loose posts. With AWD, it takes a ton of power to do such things. I can see one or two tires slipping on you, but to break all 4 in any gear higher than 1st is tough to do with out brute force. I have a piddly NA Forester. It tekes effort to light up all 4 tires on loose gravel. It usually means I'm being a little mean to the car or making it slide a little in the first place. On pavement, even with the crap tires I have on it, I can't break traction unless I'm cornering hard under heavy throttle or took off from a stop at over 5k rpm. Even in these situtations, I'm only hearing a one tire or maybe two chirp a little, no full on spin. All I can say is if you're breaking traction in 3rd, you're being a little too mean on the car, lol, despite the fact that this is the point where the real fun begins.

Don't be afraid to beat on the car a little. Just realize you are still constrained by the laws of physics and the physical limits of the parts that make up the whole of your car, be it the gears, the clutch, the diffs or whatever. Use your head, use your clutch to at least some small extent, and don't try to push an already well known "fragile" tranny. I say "fragile" only in the sense that it's not built to withstand forces well beyond stock. You can run 500hp through it if you wanted, but you'd need to be very careful with those 500 ponies. In retrospect, I've seen several posts saying even the NA guys in stock trim RSs breaking gears. it's all in how you drive.

 

Yeah I guess the next time I am at Firestone, and no cops are around, I'll just have to show people that I can in fact get it to break loose going 1st to 2nd Just kidding, I am going to stop doing that and just get better at that shift action. I want to have as much reasonably "safe" fun as I can out of this car as I absolutely love to drive it. Like I said I am used to rear wheel drive cars and you have a lot of leeway on launching them (all stick shifts mind you)....providing you don't hop the rear end which is oh so bad. I've seen a few guys twist off their drive shaft off the rear end and beat the car to death on the under side. It's not pretty. I am probably trying to launch my WRX too much like it is not AWD. Hence why I am asking you guys!

Yeah the 3rd gear shift as I said it only happend once and I probably caught the shift just at the right moment when I was at peak power. It's not like I am going on ice here and smoking the tires haha. Just a little squeal is all I mean. Nothing spectacular.


Thanks for the input Back Road Runner!

 

there is no shame in asking questions like you did, so good for you, its not like we were born knowing how to drive stick! atleast most of us werent :?

 

I was!! Didn't have ANYONE say a word about how to drive one, I just did.. A 95 Civic EX