Car: 2005 outback Pertinent Modifications: "stock". Description of the problem: Idled file, drove but lost power after a minute of driving. Parked to fix exhaust and now wont start. Cranks strong, doesn't fire. Sometimes pops when key is let off but nothing consistent. Recent maintenance or modifications: Swapped the broken ej20x with a working ej251 long block. Replaced head gaskets while the block was out, since they were leaking oil externally. New spark plugs. Used the correct cam and crank sprockets. Checked timing several times. Note... The ej251 use to clack when it was in the forester but not after the swap.. I found a rusty spark plug wire on the forester during disassembly, so I think that was the cause of the noise. I didn't use the forester intake. Car started right up and idled perfectly after the swap. Idled the car in the driveway get up to temp to test cooling, which worked great. Pulled out of the driveway and car had good torque the first time I stepped on the throttle, rolled up to the first stop sign and it began to stutter. Turned around and couldn't get up the hill. No power under load. Pulled into the driveway let it sit a few minutes and it fired right back up. Next test drive, same behavior. First acceleration was good, then stumbles and almost dies. Replaced coil and plug wires (not the rusty one) that I had on hand, again same no-power problem. Compression test was acceptable ~160ish. Couldn't do leak down. Pulled the plug wires off and used old spark plugs to check for spark, all 4 sparked during crank. After 2 days of troubleshooting (drove a few feet and then parked again), I decided to replace the exhaust doughnut gasket post cat. Waited 2 more days with the entire left side jacked up. Finally got the right size gasket installed, tried to start the car and it would crank strong but not fire. Gave up and posted here after testing the following: - Checked timing. - 12.5v on battery, drops to 11.3v during crank. Cranks strong. Attempted to charge the battery more over night. - Checked fuel pump voltage: At the pump, 12v on key forward, ~10-11 during cranking. Makes noise when plugged in. - Checked fuel pressure at feed: ~40 psi, doesn't drop during crank. - Checked spark (mentioned above) - Checked compression (before no fire condition, could check again) - Used Tactrix cable to check: Battery voltage (same as multimeter), MAF (reads ~2 g/s during crank), Air temp, coolant temp, oil temp, intake temp, Injector duty cycles (ecu reading), RPM (200-300 during crank, implying its not a sensor issue), and other things that I can't remember. I didn't want to remove the valve cover to swap a cam sensor with another unless I run out of ideas. I don't think that was the issue, because of how well it ran after the swap... Also haven't checked plugs but maybe should... I should also mention, the SO was driving the car when the rod finally gave, and she said she was trying to get up a hill when it lost all power and almost died. This is the same symptom we saw right after the engine swap on the first test drive. All things said, I think the swap is fine, there are other gremlins I just can't seem to figure out. Bonus question: Any suggestions for a newish car that I can replace this outback (the SO's car)?
I swore I typed "requirements: non-Subaru".. must be these damn moderators censoring me.. She showed me two she found today..a Honda fit,and a Mazda 3. Not sure how I feel about that
Update: Sometimes you just have to type your problems out to realize what you missed. I pulled the spark plugs out and they were pretty wet. I also noticed the NGK I wanted wasn't what I got. Looks like I got the laser (?) which has a finer tip electrode then the stock ones I pulled out. I slapped the old ones back in and after a little persuasion ... It started right up. A little smoke from the tail pipe but it cleared... AND The torque was there the whole 5 minutes I spent annoying my neighborhood. I noticed it needed more coolant which seemed strange because I don't remember taking that much out but I figured I will keep an eye on it. Hopefully it isn't a leaking into the cylinder.. I would assume there would be far more smoke if that was the case.
I hope that worked out. Iridium plugs won't prevent it from starting... Let's clarify exactly what engines you're working with. '05 Outback should be an EJ253 (Unless it's a California emissions model with an EJ259), but probably without VVT. What year Forester EJ251 did you use? Any trouble codes?
No codes. It did start fine when I first put them in but they were pretty wet. Likely unable to make a good spark. Definitely explains why it had torque at first but didn't after (fuel washed out the plug on the first pull). The 05 normally comes with a ej253 but they didn't put vvt on the 253 until the 06 model year. There are no plugs on the original intake for vvt. This year also does not have the tgv but does have an egr. I was tempted to remove the egr for troubleshooting but maybe I'll just clean it. The Forester is an 01 with the 251 that also doesn't have vvt. All things said, the 251 is much closer to the original engine then the 203(?) That was in there .. I let the car sit about an hour last night and it started a again but was pretty rough. I left it for the evening and will check it again after work. After sleeping on it, I though about the possibility of loose healbolts.. I did commit a mechanics sin and reused the old healbolts (in their original spots). They torqued down fine but may have loosed up from the heat. I did use arp lube so maybe a recheck is in order. Edit: damnit, I just realized the 01 didn't have an egr. I bet the plug hole I used was coolent. Wow smfh. Guess I have something to check tonight.
if its one you plan to keep, might be worth changing those headbolts... pretty sure those are still TTY and best practice would be to not reuse them.
I thought about it.. I may do something if we don't find a replacement car in the future. It may hold fine too, who knows. Update: I am humiliated. It was a coolant plug, and there is no EGR on the EJ251. In my defense, I forgot about the EGR until I was putting the intake on, after the motor was already in the car. When I realized this, I felt around for the plug, took it out, and tossed the EGR pipe in without thinking much of it. Lucky, the EGR valve itself held most of the coolant back during operation.. I checked the oil and its at the same level it was when I filled it, so I don't think any coolant made it down into the oil pan. Might be a good sign the head gaskets and bolts are working.. Takeaway: - EJ251 = No EGR. - EJ253 = EGR plug in head. - Intake = no like coolant. - Spark plugs = no spark when wet. - There is always a tomorrow, get some sleep. Hopefully someone learns from my mistakes.
Subaru head bolts are not TTY, and are reusable if not damaged. So it had been swapped to some sort of 2.0l at some point? The plugs are definitely wet with fuel, not coolant? All of them, or are some worse than others (#3, for instance)? It does kind of sound like it's flooding. The fuel pressure regulator can cause that, but I've not seen it get that bad, and I think (definitely on older models) it's vacuum line goes right into the #3 runner, so the other 3 shouldn't be effected. Could be a blocked return causing fuel pressure to be much higher than it should be. EDIT: simultaneous post. glad to see you got it figured out.
Good to know! I wasn't 100% sure but they looked fine and tightened up so I sent it. After a quick google, I think there may be some confusion online about angle torquing vs TTY. Previous owner did a JDM n/a 2.0 just before selling it. I was hesitant, but the SO needed a car pretty bad and all of the other outbacks I found had HG issues. A "fresh build" was appealing. Fun story, the SO had it for about 3 months until the connecting rod (in the 2.0) first spun. She drove over 20k on a bad bearing before it finally nope'd out. Plus after all of this, we got to spend some quality time together taking it apart. Memory was fuzzy but I believe cyls 2,3 weren't terrible but still wet, cyl 1 was I think the driest, with 4 was the wettest. It smelt like fuel but it was also a little dark. I don't know why that wasn't a red flag. This model has dual FPR but no intake reference, because no boost. Maybe its time that changes Thanks! I appreciate your contribution. Without you, I would be the crazy guy in the corner talking to himself.
