I am in the process of putting a new (used) transmission out of a 2005 wrx in to my 2002 WRX wagon. I didn't realize until now that the 2005 drivetrain has different front axles/stub axles then my 2002. The 2002 tranny has short stub axles that stick out of the tranny for the front axles, female splin, to connect to. The 2005 tranny I have doesn't have stub axles at all. From what I read, the 2005 used a front axle with a male spline attached to it. The male spline slid in to the holes on the sides of the transmission to hook things up. What is the best way to get my 2002 car to play nice with the 2005 transmission? Should I just go hunt down some new 2005 wagon front axles? Will the 2005 front axles be compatible with my 2002 front hubs? Can I convert my 2005 tranny to have male stub axles and work with my 2002 front axles? I tried to identify the possible speed bumps before I started this project. Everything I read said that it was a straight swap in to my 2002 unless I went with a tranny from 2006 or newer. Never should have guessed this would go 100% smoothly. Let me know if you can help. Thanks.
Yes, I'm using stubs in my 06 wrx box with my legacy female axles. You will need new oil seals to suit the smaller stub as well. View attachment 20803 View attachment 20804 View attachment 20805
hmmmmmmmm... wonder if i could buy stronger stubs for my 02? since people been saying that my stage 1 clutch is putting out too much torq, and tore up my frt rght stub. why did whitebr sub installed a whole re-manfr joint for $230 then? when they told me that the teeths on the stubs got grinded up? i was actly looking to install all sti joints.
I looked a little deeper in to the axel stub option and it sounds like I would need to pull the tranny apart to do it. I am thinking that just getting new front axles would be the easiest/quickest option. Does anyone know for sure if the 05 WRX (wagon specific) font axles is what I will need?
Front stubs do not require the box to be taken apart. They have a spring style circlip and simply pop in with a mallet. The items i have pictured above are the 04 STI parts i used in my 06 wrx box to accept my 97 legacy female axles. These will work for your 05 box just as well.
Sorry for my skepticism... I just know that all stub axles do not pop in and out. Some of them have a spring circlip and some just have your standard circlip which does not allow you to "pop" them in and out. In addition, I read that the different stub axles are different lengths... do you know anything about this? Lastly, don't take this personally, but I have learned over the years to sift through the information I get off the internet. As I am sure you know, not all advice on the forums is good advice. I am just trying to make sure that the advice you are giving me is 100% legit for my situation. Again... no offense. Thanks for the efforts.
Haha as you should doubt everything said on the internet. No offense taken at all, just wanted to toss in my bit of information I know works in my setup. I can tell you any box without stubs (use male stub axles) will accept the STI stubs with spring circlips as it is the same retention method used on male axles. I believe where you are finding front stubs with standard (require box disassembly to get clips inside the diff) circlips are the pre-05 boxes. You are correct about any WRX box with existing stubs, they cannot be just popped out and used in other applications. Where are you finding differences in stub length? Is it between STI years or between WRX and STI stubs? 04 STI axles will not work. They are female inners and require the above stub to work. Also they are longer than your wagon axles and require R180 hubs The 05 Wagon Axles would be your ideal solution though not as cheap as installing the STI stubs. For reference if it helps. 02/05 wrx and 04 sti front diff assembly diagrams: http://www.oksubaru.com/gallery/v/Misc/Subaru+Front+Diff/
Threshld1 - Can't thank you enough. I hunted for a while trying to find where I read about different length stub axles, but couldn't find anything. Maybe I made it up in my nervousness of getting bad info. I talked to Morrie's about the 04 sti stubs.... about $60 for each and about an extra $10 for each seal. I talked to the local Napa about 05 wrx wagon front axles.... about $60 each with 3 year warranty. From that, I am thinking about just going with the new 05 axles. That gives me a warranty on the new setup and I can possibly sell my old 02 axles. So, what is the opinion of people more knowledgable then me? 8 )
Did you ask what the core charge is on the axles? The last time I bought a remanufactured axle at NAPA the core charge was almost as much as the axle itself.
fronts changed halfway through the model year. early '04s still used male stubs on the trans. Also, the front hubs are not effected by the rear diff. 5x100 is 5x100. '04 STi axles will work just fine in any other 5x100 hubs. You are correct on the length, although I have heard that the inner joint can soak up the difference without trouble, I know of a guy using STi axles in his EA82, which is even narrower than EJs. yea, you'll either need to split your case to install stubs into it. or get your hands on new axles. ideally from a wagon or legacy (same width as the GH, although I'm not sure whether they have stubs or not), but GD ones might work as well (don't take my word for it though, do some more research before using this option).
Last time I checked, PPG does not included stronger stub shafts and axles with their gearsets. So, in essence, a built 5mt has nothing to do with tearing up a stub shaft and associated parts. :raise:
Chux, Good to know on STI axles, i was under the impression R180 had larger OD outer axle stubs. Can you fill me in on why the case would need to be split to install 04 stubs?
it's not the rear diff that determines the hub/bearing/axle dimensions. it's the lug pattern. The stubs (assuming they're the same as the older ones. I've never been in a trans built in the last 10 years or so) have to go in from the inside to seal properly, and are held in by a snapring inside the diff.
Wrong. These stubs install with a spring loaded circlip. Threschld explained this like 5 posts up...lol I've had these stubs for an '04 FXT box in my '02 WRX for 40k miles.
Well I think there is confusion here as to which stubs can be popped in and which require box teardown. Any box that came with stubs in the box (besides the sti) require access inside the diff to remove the circlips to remove the stubs. Thus requiring box teardown of any box they would go into. In this case Chux is correct. I believe the 05 wrx box is the first year with male axles. The STI stubs use the same spring circlip as male axles since there is no way you can easily get inside the LSD diff to remove/install standard circlips. This means you can install the STI stubs into any box which uses male stub axles/spring circlips.
Ah, I misread. I didn't realize those would work with the 5-speed. Cool! those look extremely similar to the 4EAT stubs....I wonder if those would work....
Here we are. Appears Auto stubs are a different part # http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1089118
You guys rock! Thanks for the help. Mind you, my MNSOC post is absolutely killing my NASIOC post right now. Well done guys.
doesn't mean they're not interchangeable.....spline count on the outside is the same, I know that much. I dunno...I wouldn't put money either way.
just a FYI. I run a complete JDM STi DCCD 6spd swap from FW to the Brembos on my '99 Impreza Wagon. I am running my L control arms and lateral arms with the STi axles. I have no issues thus far driving. I only broke one axle during a launch and the rear driver wheel went over rough spots on the road. Broke the bearing crown on the outer end. I had no DCCD controller. I wonder how people are binding with their 6spd swaps using GC lateral/contorl arms?? The rear R180 uses the bigger rear axles. The bigger rear axles fits the bigger rear knuckles. The spline count on the hubs of the STi rear axles are the same count as the front axles. The R160 uses smaller spline count in the rear hubs. In this sense R180 need the axles and rear hub/knuckle assembly. If you choose to run your smaller rear knuckles, you need custom axles made or simply have the shaft made to take the R180 inner and take the R160 outter.
Regarding the sealing issue, you don't want to just pop stubs in because that would ruin the seals. Once the seals are ruined, you'll leak tranny fluid. You have to remove the seal first before popping in. It's a whole lot easier to just replace the seals with the new ones. If you want to avoid removing the seal, then you have to put the stubs in from the inside out (break apart the case). 02-early 05 WRX and 04-early 05 STI you have to unscrew the bearing race. For late 05+ WRX and late 05+ STI you can pull the seal out without removing the differential bearing race. ~Dan
The groove for a snap-ring and the groove for a circlip are two different animals. When we took my old five speed apart in Pete's garage for the stubs, we discovered this. I thought you were there, but maybe not. I don't think I have that picture anymore with the two side b y side.
I think hes referring to the interchangeability between Auto stubs and 6MT stubs despite being different part #'s.
Oh boy...confusion. Thanks for the clarification Fuji. Yea, rear hubs are different for the r180, even with the 5x100. I was just referring to front hubs.....but I didn't say so. Yea, Dan. I remember the 5MT stubs being distinctly different than the 6MT ones. I was pondering if the 4EAT ones would work. Which makes me think.....the 6MT stubs work in the '05+ front diff? But the -'04 stubs won't work in the 6MT. so the splines are different in the front diff?
Im guessing readymix speaking from experience. It's mostly from going hunting alot down in Redwing, you know all those curvy uphill and downhill, and 97% of the time downshifting instead of braking,
Well, the car is still in the garage.... In the process of putting the tranny in, I decided to redo a bunch of bushings and send my turbo in to get rebuilt. Now those projects and some last details on the tranny are holding me back from wrapping things up. Question now.... So, I picked up some remanufactured axles from NAPA for my car. They are supposed to be for the 05 WRX wagon... Well, the first pair I picked up weren't even a pair. One axle didn't have the telescoping ability that it needed and the other axle was missing an outer dust seal at the hub. Below are pictures of each axle with and without the dust seal. View attachment 21247 View attachment 21248 Because the axles were completely different, I asked NAPA to order a replacement pair. The day I went to do the exchange, I was "pleasently" suprised that only one replacement axle had been shipped to the NAPA location. The axle that was shipped at least matched one of the axles I already had, no dust seal. Unsatisfied, I exchanged the odd-ball axle and took home a pair of matching, dust seal-less, axles. Do you guys think that it will be ok for me to run the axles without the dust seal? Or, do I go back to NAPA, order different remanufactured axles, wait 3 more days to exchange, and then hope that the new axles will have the seals included?
reman'd axles are junk. run those, and I bet at least one of them is clicking/binding within 20k miles. grab some used axles on NASIOC or something. heck, get some from a sedan and swap the inner cups onto your wagon shafts. you'll be way better off for a fraction of the price.
Well, car is back on the road with "dog crap" connecting the wheels to the transmission. So far, so good. I figure for about 50 bucks, it's worth trying the reman axles out. I never did get a decent pair from NAPA with dust seals included. I just threw in the non-dust seal version a took picture of above. But, I do have my fingers crossed...that's got to be good for something : ) Thanks for the help guys. See you on the road. BRAP!
