2007 STi hesitation issue

Anyone on the boards get the ECU reflash to fix the hesitation issue yet? I have an appt on Monday (Morries Minnetonka) to get the reflash though the guy I talked to knew nothing about it...

More info about it here:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76772

 

Never heard of it. Whats the issue (<== not registered for the iwsti boards)?

 

On the '07s there is a hesitation when entering boost under partial (not WOT) throttle. Feels kinda like hitting a deep water puddle just as the turbo starts getting with the program. Some have described it as a stutter.

People are saying the new ecu flash will cure it, I was curious if anyone on here has had it done.

 

if you get a tune, it will cure it. A tune can even increase throttle sensitivity and response.

 

Not yet, but I have an appointment on Thursday morning. While some have described it as hesitation, I'd call it surging. It most often happens between 2500 and 3300 RPM under partial throttle in my car.

There's no doubt that it doesn't replace a decent aftermarket tune. It only addresses a poor factory tune.

 

Hrm. Let me know how it goes. Looks like Enginuity definitions for your car are coming out soon.

My guess is that surging could be easily corrected by a fairly knowledgeable tuner, and you could get a stage 1 in the process. My stock map on my '06 WRX did something similar, a surging at partial throttle and ~2500 rpm. The stock throttle mapping sucks. My "self-tuned" (aka base map + small changes for my car) stage 1 completely cleaned up the powerband, which IMHO is the biggest plus of a stage 1 tune; drivability.

 

nasioc had something on that if I remember, take it to the dealership and let them flash it, they said it helps alot

But I think a custom tune is better...

 

Yeah, my 07 WRX does it too. Bugs the hell out of me. Let us know if the subaru reflash fixes it.

 

I definitely will give a report after my appt on Monday. I will end up with a 3rd party tune (and more) once Cobb finishes up the programming for '07s on the AP v2 but I was hoping for a good tune from Subaru before that.

Publius, on my car the power falters as it starts into boost then comes on as it should. What do you mean by surging in your car? I'm assuming you get a power *surge* that falls off right away? If you would, give us your opinion after your reflash.

Thanks for the replies.

 

jtoy -- yes, I see that hesitation as well. Under partial throttle and no boost, though, the revs will surge by 100 to 200 RPM, then fall off again; the car will almost buck. Imagine cruising along in traffic in second gear at 2800 RPM just keeping space between you and the car in front of you. Suddenly it looks like somebody just let their 'special' uncle take the manual transmission for a test drive.:biggrin:

In my mind, the SOA flash should make it more pleasant to drive, but certainly doesn't take the place of a proper tune. I'll let y'all know how it feels when I get the car back.

 

There are definitions for the '07 WRX. The stage 1 maps on the OSECU site are fairly good. There is also a decent stage 0 map with edited throttle mapping. Shibbs, why don't you try those?

 

I already did a minor tune with the throttle mapping (stole the STI mapping) and changed the OL/CL delay. Helped none. I'm wanting to do that STG1 mapping tho. If someone wants to help me load a basemap there's a 12-pack of corona in it for them! (Provided they're of age, of course :roll: )

For the record, no, I do not have a laptop, nor a cable.

 

I'd be willing to share my hardware. My guess is I'd have to move the stage 1 maps into a '07 ROM file. Shouldn't be to hard, however.

 

The reflash took very little time and, of course, my service adviser was excellent. I've been running for less than 20 miles, and in traffic at that, but here are my first impressions.

I haven't experienced the surging that I was seeing at lower RPMs. The one shot that I had to wind it up a little in 2d, the boost came on smoothly. I'm anxious to give it a really good go later on this evening and tomorrow. More news later...

 

^^ Hey man I didn't know you were on here... I was the tech that worked on your car. Hopefully that re-flash cures the problem.

What happened to your STi emblem on your front spoiler????

 

Great prelim news. Can't wait to get my reflash on Monday. :yumyum: I've been missing the edginess of my '04. Where did you have it done?

 

Brian -- cool! Thanks for the work, man! I'm not sure what happened to the emblem. I took the car in for a wash when it was wicked cold, and I'm betting the high pressure jet they used picked it off. The chin spoiler popped off one of the screws, too. I checked on the price of a replacement spoiler when I dropped it off this morning and nearly shat myself! I'm gonna see if I can do something clever this weekend when I'm changing the oil.

jtoy -- I brought it to Morrie's Minnetonka. Courtney was my service adviser and Brian was the tech. I'm a little geeky by nature and have a copy of the tech's hard card comments with me. It's a pretty short time for the labor op.

 

If you DO get a new one, I'll take the old one off your hands!! !!

 

I also have had the reflash done on my 2007 STi. Brian (I believe was your name) I saw your signature and do you also have a 2007 STi Ltd.?

The hesitation issue seems to be all but gone, especially when holding the car at a constant speed where the surging was most prevalent for me. Also, WOT is much smoother and more linear in the power delivery where before it was sketchy and it almost felt like the car would be linear, then pause, and then resume at a linear rate.

I bought my car at Burnsville Subaru but had the flashing and my oil change done at White Bear Subaru. They treated me very well and have now earned my business for all my maintenance since I am in Forest Lake.

Also, this is just my personal opinion/experience from when I had my 2005 EVO; I did pop the negative terminal off the battery on my 2007 STi Ltd. and stepped on the brake pedal and then let it sit overnight to drain the ECU and then connected everything back up again the following morning.

I find that I like the ECU to just start fresh and re-learn everything in that manner instead of just having the reflash done and then keep on driving. My guess is that the ECU flash will trigger a reset of the ECU once completed which is probably the same, but I went ahead and did it my way just to be sure.

Anyone happen to pull the old ROM (410) using ECUFlash or have a .hex copy of it for archiving?

 

Just another tidbit of information. I went to Josh at LSE Performance and had my 2007 STi Ltd. #407/800 dyno'd before I had the new reflash performed on my ECU, I had around 6200 miles on it...BONE STOCK and I mean BONE stock!

Made 223HP/219 ft. lbs. on the Dyno Dynamics, and we measured HP/Torque/Boost.

I am interested in seeing if the new flash caused a power loss or gain. The car feels about the same, but boost seems to have fallen off a bit and is not hitting quite as hard.

Will be curious to see if this reflash "detuned" the car a bit or if it's just in my head and the ECU needs to keep learning. The dyno boost plots should tell all once I bring it in sometime in the next couple of weeks after I put some more miles on.

 

Hey guys I was just browsing over at IWSTI and someone had started a warning for 07 owners about this Subaru reflash screwing things up for future(aftermarket) refashes. might want to check it out:dunno: Oh and don't ask for the link cause my computer skills are equal to a certain someones spelling ability.

 

Here is the link for all -

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77790&highlight=flash

This is VERY disappointing and SUBARU you suck for doing this should this be actually the case!

I was reading on the COBB threads that they already have there AP2 hardware/software already built around the latest reflash, so I am not entirely sure this is going to be an issue.

 

I have made a couple of posts on IWSTI and COBB's forum regarding this. I am hoping it to not be an issue, but we will see.

As far as I am concerned Tuners on the EVO side were adding different trigger codes so people could not read their flash and Malibu Jack created a program to trigger different codes in the background while ECUFlash was trying to trigger the ECU to read the ROM which got around that issue...albeit a bit different than what is being talked about here.

Being a Novell/Microsoft engineer for the last 15 years in the IT industry...someone will always reverse engineer this issue and get it working...I am confident.

 

Thank you for posting this. I'm relieved that I read about it before going to get the reflash. Although the info about it seems sketchy at this point I decided to have the reflash anyway. I have confidence that Cobb will be able to handle the changes to the ECU for the AP. At worst it may delay my move into the mod world which is ok with me.

My car feels quite a bit better with it's new brains. Still not as edgy as the '04 but that's to be expected with the longer gears. It may have suffered from the surging/hesitation more than most. I don't have much stick time in it since the flash, but the stutter seems to be gone, the power curve feels smoother and throttle tip-in seems better. All butt-dyno of course. Time will tell I guess.

 

Ok, good news. Just saw this over on iwsti:

>>Quote:
>>Originally Posted by rgt
>>Will cobb's final touch up to the 07 maps be affected by the new ecu reflash that is being currently distributed to the dealerships?

>No, we actually based our AP calibrations off the latest ROM.

 

jtoy -- good to hear you're provisionally happy with the flash!

 

I'm glad to hear that both of you are "more" satisfied with your cars. I'd hate for you to be dissapointed with your sweet rides.

Markeddy- The car in my avi is actually Publius's ride. That pic was taken when I did the PDI/Fog light install on it.

Publius- You have one sweet car, and I'm kinda glad that you are geeky as you so put it. That means that you will take care of that car, so it will provide many years of enjoyment!

 

...is my sarcasm detector faulty? Hard to gauge intonation in a forum.

oh, and if you're the one who flashed my car, thanks!

 

most def NOT sarcasm, brian loves any and all subies

 

Me too. Wish I was smart enough to have owned one when I was younger.

Didn't figure it was sarcasm but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Thanks for clarifying.

 

Jtoy, that wasn't my sarcasm. 3ric is right, I like all suby's. Your's is especially kick ass!

 

Some interesting info,

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1212166

 

I wonder if blocking aftermarket flashes was deliberate, or an unintended side effect. It would seem odd to me that Subaru decides to take a step like that after so many years of relatively little interference. Why now? Why this flash? I suspect it was unintended.

 

I thought there was a gov't reg about how easy or hard it was to flash a car. I could be wrong but I thought I heard that somewhere.

 

From that NASIOC thread, it just sounds like the ROM table definitions will need to be updated, that's not blocking a reflash, it's just the byproduct of making updates to a car's ECU (albeit, a fairly large change to the structure of the ROM). Doesn't sound deliberate to me..

 

+1

Don't worry...just give it some time...there is always a way around everything...:eek3:

 

The new ECU flash has tables scattered in different places (i.e. the definitions are not the same) which is why ECUTek is having issues.

Cobb already has their AP2 programming built around the latest flash/tables so it's not an issue.

YES, it was a basic unintended side affect from Subaru re-arranging things.