http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1821714 Do those #'s sound a little high to you? The thing that bugs me is that people do all of these unnecessary mods, it's hard to tell what's actually making the difference. For example, I saw the chart on the Perrin TMIC vs. factory, and it's a minimal difference. And isn't the stock intake good for over 300whp? Seems like the bellmouth downpipe & catback is the only real difference besides the tune. What would you guess the price tag would be for the NECESSARY parts and tune for 300whp?
Keep in mind a few things about dynos. They are tools, not definitive error-free machines that can be compared between dyno manufacturers. DynoJets are the highest reading dynos that I'm aware of. On a Mustang Dyno, he'd read around 12% lower. 282HP on the Mustang. With the 2009 2.5L and proper tuning, I'd say that sounds about normal. The stock intake isn't good for over 300whp, I've seen it draw down around 250-260WHP. Also, a bellmouth downpipe and catback + tune is the prescribed setup for "Stage 2." Most stage 2 2.5L cars on this forum are running around 280whp on RS's mustang dyno. What is necessary for 300whp? Depends on the gas, and where you want your power to be. Ask your tuner.
Dynapak's (hub type dyno) typically read higher . I'd slightly disagree with this. On the 2.5L engine at least, the stock intake won't typically become a major restriction until around 350 WHP. What he said .
The intake I will also disagree with. I know the 09's are 70mm intakes, so that is just like running a perrin bigmaf. I have seen people up in the 400whp range with the stock intake. I am guessing you will crush any kinda of filter you put in the box, but the maf section itself is 70mm. As for numbers. We can use our own community for perfect examples. Recently we had 2 wrx's get tuned. One with a vf48 on e85 making 310ish, and one vf39 on pump making 280ish. I will bet LOTS of money that the vf39 making 280 will walk all over the vf48 car. Yes, there is a lot of variables in play here, but one was done on a high reading dyno, and the other on the mustang dyno. Never shoot for a number. Never use a number as a goal. Bullwinkle can make graphs move up and down with slight changes to air temps. The only good number is a number that you can compare to that was taken on the same dyno under the same settings. Russ
I would argue that my K&N Cone filter attatched to my APS CAI can filter as good or better than your stock air box.
I guess the VF52 turbo is ball bearing and pretty decent. Seems like a lot can be done before the turbo would be the weak point. Is this more of a "fast spooler" or a "high end power" kind of turbo?
It is a stock intake with a K&N pannel filter Maybe? But I know for my use a cone filter would be over kill since the pannel filter flow just fine. Plus with the housing water and slush is less likely to get on the filter.
The K&N panel filter flows better than the stock panel filter. I was referring to stock intake and filter.
Well, the stock box is a cold air intake. It pulls air from the fender. And if you think slapping on a 65mm APS intake is OK to just run, I am glad it is your car. Most aftermarket intakes need to be tuned. Even when they are the same diameter as the stock intake. Your APS intake flows better and will throw off your fuel trims. I tuned 3 cars with the 65mm intake, and I spent almost the same amount of time getting those correct as if I was tuning a 70mm intake. Russ
I really doubt the stock box is a "true" cold air intake as without modification there is really no way to ensure it is pulling air from the fender. Yes the inlet points right at the top of the fender after the snorkus delete but that under no circumstances makes it a CAI. I didn't see where I suggested getting a CAI and slapping it on without atleast redoing the MAF scaling, you absolutely need to get tuned, but my point is saying that the stock airbox is better than a nice aftermarket CAI like the APS 65 or 70mm is just bad information.
i am running the stock inlet, box and wix air filter in my 03 and it still made 318whp regardless of being on a dynojet or not.
I don't believe he's saying that its better, he's just saying there are better things to spend money on at those power levels.
That's pretty irrelevant. What turbo are you running? Stock engine block? There are a million forces at work that will get you where you're at.
And wait, what? Different dynos show different numbers. Each one measures differently and puts out different information. So how on earth can you say it made 318 regardless of what dyno it was on?
That I do agree with, but if you at any point plan on going with a larger turbo I would just get a CAI and put it on to begin with because most turbo's will benefit somewhat from it being on there.
a vf48 with ewg and e-85 at 18psi. i meant even on a mustang dyno it would read pretty close to 300 give or take 10whp. and i know how different dynos work.
Actually it would read closer to 280. Which is about right for that turbo on E85 considering it is smaller than a VF39 which makes about 280whp on pumpgas on the Mustang.
I think the VF39 and VF48 are pretty similar in size/flow (I could be wrong). But I would still say that 275-280 whp on a Mustang dyno be about right.
Ignore me, I was thinking VF-52. The 48 is from the 08STi. So, similar gains should be made compared to the 39/34 sized turbos.
There is no reason to go with anything other than the stock airbox unless you are running a FMIC or you are maxing out the maf. I was running air temp sensors on my wrx for 7 years. I tried 5-6-7 different intakes. The stock box kept the air temps just as low as all the cai I tried (and was was the aps 70mm). There are tons of other places I would spend money, until you max out the maf. Well I can tell you this. One dyno day alone, we had 4 different STI's all on the mustang dyno. Every one of them was running a 20g varient with a mix of FMIC and TMIC. All of them were right around 300-310 on pump gas, and 350-375 on 110 race gas. So if you think your vf48 can flow enough air to push 300whp on a mustang, you have a super turbo. Russ
all i was trying to get at is that 300whp and stock intake induction can go together. and there are to many variables to consider. but hey you have been around subaru's for many years, and i just bought mine 2 months ago.
I just ran 272whp with my vf39 on 93 octane yesterdaY(stock air intake/K&n filter & gimmick inlet) MY OLD 20g set up made 310 whp (with Perrin Big Maf & Turbo Inlet)SO YOUR numbers are spot on.
Depending on how much pressure you push, you will need a new intercooler and BPV/BOV, if you check around you can see that the intercooler end tanks pop off and the factory BPV flex's after about 18 psi. Watch out for anything you read on NASIOC, because most of the retards on there only pass on info that they read 7 years ago about 02 wrx. You need to read up about 05-09 Legacy GT parts, if you want proper answers.
4drcivicmaster is also running a 2.0l compared to your 2.5l, so 280 on a mustang running e-85 is still about right.
He should just put the 2.5L STI long block he has :biggrin: (Just use a Credit card and buy buy buy worry about paying for it latte :ugh:r like the bail outs)
Doesn't the factory intake system pull air from right above the radiator? IE, fresh unadulterated air from the front of the car. There are way to many arguments in this thread based on assumptions, which is a fallacy. Unless you have data, arguing is pointless.
i never buy car stuff with credit cards. only thing i use them for is for school expenses. damn sorry for making this thread so off topic now... and it's just the sti block, so it will be a hybrid, but that won't be done until spring time.
