looking to get a new family car. few weeks ago got a 2015 legacy preimum loner, drove pretty nice, but at 25k you're looking at a car with the only option being heated seats and a sunroof, not even leather. i get you have to price in 4wd compared to other japanese sedans but still. another option is to get 2011-2012 CPO C300 4matic with 10-20k miles on it that would basically have the same 3 year warranty but with unilmited miles. gas mileage sucks compared to legacy but the MB is pretty easy for DYI to the point that i can do my own oil changes. anyone recently went through a decision of getting a new sedan, what did you end up with?
C300 4matic is nice and I think they look good too. My mom has one and it is certainly more comfortable and quiet than any subaru I have driven. CPO is good, in the long run maintenance will be more expensive but if you do it yourself it's probably not bad.
You can get a used 2010+ Taurus SHO for well within that price range and with low miles. The Ford CPO program is pretty decent, 7yr/100k on the mileage. AWD, 365hp, plenty of luxury stuff (heated/cooled/massaging front seats, voice nav, heated rear seats, cross traffic/blind spot sensors, power sunshade, proximity cruise control, etc), quick (0-60 around 5.1), quiet and a trunk big enough to toss a Fiesta in for a commuter car.
i should clarify that by family car i meant a car for the wife... she's not into really performance cars and doubt american either. we'd be replacing 2004 accord ex leather. we looked at mazda 6 and i actually have to say that thing drove great but it has really weird wind buffing noise on the back windows so that's out. honda accords would be a good option but again, a decently optioned one is creeping into 30's, same with maximas (don't like altimas). pretty confident i can replace typical engine/cabin air filters, do the oil changes on the MB myself, can probably do a brakejob, the only thing would be any gearbox/transfer case maintenance which seems to be required about every 50k and will probably run $3-400 at an independent, not too bad considering it'd be every 4-5 years. otherwise unless something electrical happens i'd think the car should be pretty bullet proof. currently the accord has almost 180k. plan to keep the next car for 150K+ again, not planning on getting a car to only keep to about 100k. @Nhibbs -- how do you like your 3 series? another contender would be a 2011-2012 CPOd 328 xi... do you plan on keeping your 3 series for a while?
In my experience, the 2.5 legacys are pretty gutless, made worse is the cvt. But the new legacy gets very good mileage for being awd. I would look at cost of ownership of cars on your list, initial price is only part of the equation. I would also figure out what are your key needs (amenities, gas mileage, reliability, awd, etc) are and drop the cars that don't meet your needs. Some other cars you might consider: Infiniti G37x Acura TL Audi A4 Hyundai Genesis sedan Kia Optima Camry/accord/Altima @TMF told me that the Audi A4 had the highest reliability and lowest cost of ownership of the German options. He may be able to shed some light. German cars are notorious for more maintenance issues past 100k If it were me, and I was planning on keeping a car for 120k plus, I would opt for a camry or an accord. Just my $0.02
Before I bought my 3.6r, I looked at a TL-SH AWD and some other cars I can't remember right now. For the price and options the 3.6 was far better.
I love the 335i, mine is RWD but my gf has an X3 and BMW's xdrive is real good in the snow. It's better than the haldex systems a lot of AWD cars have (VW, some audi's, volvo, etc). The 328xi would be nice, I assume you will be getting an auto for the wife. If you do I would say test drive both a 2011 and a 2012 to see what you guys like. I think the 2012 would be better, it has the new N20 turbo 4 cyl and the new 8 speed ZF auto transmission which shifts almost as fast as DCT's. It gets 30+mpg too. The 2011 has the old NA inline 6 and a 6 speed auto. I had a new loaner 320xi recently (which is the same engine as the 328 just detuned) and I liked it. Either way definitely get CPO, it will be well worth it. Good luck in your search. Have your wife drive a bunch of different cars with you and see what she likes.
LOL I did? Maybe it was, I don't remember what I found when looking at consumer reports. I was only considering an A4 because I could get a CPO one and be covered until 100k...which I probably wouldn't keep it that long to see over 100k. To the OP, if you really plan on keeping the car past 100k, I would probably shy away from German cars. Yes, CPO is nice, but normally not that many big problems crop up before 100k...its 100k+ when things start to get expensive. For AWD, you're pretty limited beyond Subaru, perhaps a G37x, Acrua's SH-AWD (which apparently is pretty good), and Lexus' AWD vehicles. When I was on the hunt earlier this year, AWD was my #1 priority, and my #2 was to not buy a Subaru. I'll be damned if I didn't buy another Subaru I was really stuck on the G37X until I drove one...back seat and trunk were too small, premium fuel, and less than great MPG's. I considered the Acura TL SH-AWD, but the rear seats don't fold down, so that was out. Lexus IS's hold their value surprisingly well and were out of my budget for the mileage that I wanted. Test drove the 3.6R, and I took it home right after. Comfortable, plenty of interior/trunk room, nicest of any Subaru that I've driven before, heated leather, sunroof, SiriusXM and HD radio, good speakers, regular fuel, decent MPG's, good power, etc. So I've been happy with my 3.6R. However, some days I wish I would have gotten a Forester or Outback for the extra room...that being said, I may consider letting go of my 3.6R if you're interested.
If I was getting a new legacy, I'd have to be the 3.6 for me. They havent totally sorted the piston ring issues with the non high performance FB motors yet.
These are nice, but pretty damn huge. Definitely test drive one as it drives like a smaller car and the dimensions are surprisingly... bulky. That's a good point about the oil consumption (http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1092813_some-2011-2014-subarus-to-get-new-piston-rings), and why it's worth looking at buying new through a place like Morries or Walser that offer a dealership "lifetime" warranty. If the legacy 3.6r is too big, an 09 legacy 3.0r might fit her requirements. That gen legacy is the perfect size imho. Re: reliability in general, I'm not convinced that any manufacturer builds cars beyond the 150k mark anymore. The warranties and service schedules certainly seem to indicate so and of course it's in their best interest to keep inventory revolving.
Interesting, I didn't realize that the FB motors were having that many issues. That would make me think twice about going to a Forester...but that XT though
I wonder how much of it has to do with oil weight and the extended change intervals (6k and 7500 manufacturer recommended), if it's a ring gap issue, a cold start (metal expansion) issue, or what. I plan to use 10-40 and 0-30 at 3-5k intervals and a block heater, but we'll see. The engine orientation certainly isn't helping to begin with, so it's not entirely surprising... unless it turns out to be a materials and/or build tolerance issue. Even then, given subaru's track record, it still wouldn't be entirely surprising.
0-30? Would that really help the issue? Definitely agree on the block heater. What do you mean by the engine orientation?...is it different in the new ones, or do you just mean subaru's in general? sorry this is getting off topic lol.
what do you mean by would it help? engine orientation as in most v8 engines are cis male heterosexual compared to subaru which is... how's that for ot?
0-30 is pretty thin, therefore making it easier to blow by the pistons and burn off. anyway, back on topic. I'll talking about orientations and blowing in OT
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2581168 My garage (detached, insulated, radiator heater going during cold snaps) got below -10 several times last year. Probably overkill, but good peace of mind when it comes to cold start wear due to the pumpability at sub zero temps. Your assumptions about the "thinness" of oil seems uninformed though. Give that thread and similar discussions a read.
accords are a great option and was the default car, problem is between myself and family we've had like 3-4 generations of accords since 1996, all driven 150K+ so they're awesome cars but wanted a little diversity. love the new accord with sports package. camry would just be too much of old people sterotype and i don't think the wife likes that. x37, acura and 3.6 are all good suggestions but we're trying to stay around 25k, i'm pretty sure all those will probably push it over that limit. thanks for all the feedback though.
no, those are all in the ballpark (used). its starting to sound like you're already convinced about the mb. nothing wrong with that, but on the verge of disingenuous.
Touche, good point. That thread does mention that it only makes a different at extremely cold temps (-35 degrees C for example) but after all, it is the internet, so who knows. I guess it wouldn't hurt though to have 0w when it is below zero F.
i'm not sure how i gave you the feeling that i'm being insencere either with you or the group here. i'm against used cars, always bought new and always japanese because of reliablity. i've had a brand new a4 for a lease and it was the worst car ever, i couldn't wait for 3 year mark to be done with it abought an accord aftewards. all the cars were always japanese for realibitly, 90% of them were always accords, all were driven well beyond 150k mark. the mb is a 'fluke' that i'm trying to justify since i really can't see how a cloth seat japanese sedan can be pushing 25+K. when i got my 2004 accord brand new it was ~23 out the door, now the same optioned accord is 29+. i do question the stereotype of people not keeping mb past 100k, if you look around europe there are plenty of 200K+ mb taxis trolling around. when i was in denmark, due to their high taxes, the mb only became "availble" to the general public after about 100K miles on it and they were always taxis before. they'd put wraps on them to keep them looking brand new once they'd go up for sale. so i'm not set on the mb, nor any other car, but i do want new and nicely optioned for 25k, and maybe that's my problem.
I did do a quick search on Autotrader and it seemed like most of the CPO c300's were in the 35k range rather than the 25k range. I would venture to guess (just a guess) a lot of the 200k+ taxi's in europe are DIESEL, not gasoline The G37x should be very easily had in the 25k range, probably CPO too. I think you can easily get something you want in the 25k range but maybe not exactly what you want but I bet at least 75% of your criteria. While I understand your wanting to switch it up (I frequently want to do this too), sometimes its best not to mess with a good thing!
I really like the new hyundai sonatas or for a little more $ the genesis sedan is a bargain for the options you get. I don't think they have AWD though.
You can't begin to compare the cost of an 04' Accord with a 15' Accord cost brand new. Also I'm not sure where you are finding $25k CPO C300's but the very few I found were 2011's with 36k+ for miles and for that money you can get a 2012-2013 Legacy 3.6 with pretty much every option minus maybe nav. And the MB CPO is only going to get you the 5/60 and then 1 more year with unlimited miles and from what I see, that amounts to 2 years and unlimited miles on an expensive to fix car, versus a 2013 legacy with 5/60 that might have 10k on it when you buy it and gets you 3 year/ 50k warranty and cheaper to fix if you keep it longer.Confusing? never....
there is one at sears' with 9k miles for $25.5.. pretty much 25k in my opinion. a 2011 mb cpo with a total of 6 year warranty will have warranty until 2017, same length if i were to buy a new 2014 subaru, honda, toyota, etc, that comes with a standard 36mo. since you double check my numbers i double checked your numbers on autotrader and there isn't a single 3.6 listed within 200 miles of minneapolis that would be cop'ed and under 28k. never mind one that would have 10k miles on it. confusing? a little.
Someone's defense of the Legacy on Jalopnik: " It has no guts, but it gets 32mpg on the highway and 27mpg in the city driving I do. There's enough leg room for someone 6'4" to comfortably sit behind me when I'm driving and I'm 6' tall. The trunk seems like a bottomless pit. Oh and it has AWD which is great in the Michigan winters especially the last one where we had more than 150" of snow and temperatures so cold none of it melted. 161718 $22,000 for all that function and economy? Yes thank you."
And if you want some more guts/grunt, we've been pretty happy with the 3.6R in our Outback. Gas mileage isn't bad, like 20-21 city 25-26 highway, and the new CVT might be better than the 5EAT ours has? I'm not as huge of a fan of the 5EAT performance, I'd be curious to try the cvt with this engine... Anyway only slightly off topic, sorry OP
