Well if Toyota or Subaru had the balls to actually put a respectable engine in that stupid car, not everyone would call it slow.
I vote for the Synergy 2.4-liter V8 that JUN put in their time attack BRZ... http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/01/kiwi-flavoured-lemon-jun-synergy-brz-v8/
Here's this week's article from him about the STi-RA. http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a15998781/subaru-wrx-sti-type-ra-first-drive/
says the guy with a WRX which IIRC is forced induction. Keep it light, slap a small turbo or supercharger on it and let it rip.
Ugh, why are people still asking for more power in the BRZ/FRS? Clearly, yall don't understand the purpose of the car, or haven't driven one on an autox course. If you think it is too slow, your road is too straight. The miata has been low horsepower since it's inception, and you don't see people crying for more horsepower. Same idea here. The twins are excellent training cars. You want more power, go buy a used vette, 350/370Z, mustang, camaro, Z3/Z4, etc, etc. You can keep asking Subaru, but they more than likely will not put more power in the twins. Case in point...the STI still has a freaking EJ257!
But, if a person insisted on putting more power in a BRZ/FRS, I'd have to agree with @tangledupinpooo on this one...NA FTW! So much more responsive to drive...just like the responsive chassis.
Dayum straight J-money! I am about to pull the trigger as soon as i find the right one! I will have two NA Subarus at that point (plus a turbocharged one to sell). I drove Jason’s stock BRZ and really enjoyed it! Maybe someday i would do the corn booze. But if the motor ever died, i have an EG33 just begging to be swapped into it! I think that is all that it would need to be perfect.
Someone mentioned Miata... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/flyin-miata-habu-mx-5-v-8-test-review Someone else mentioned LS swap.
TMF does make a very good point. I'm sure Subaru could easily offer a BRZ with nearly as much power as an STI but I don't think they'd ever do it. The BRZ is a well-balanced car as it is with sharp handling and enough power to make it feel snappy without being a struggle to keep under control. Add too much power to the BRZ (or Miata for that matter) and you lose what makes it such a fun car.
You could get it back once you lost it. But once you’ve upgraded power, then everything else has to follow to rebalance it.ie:suspension, brakes, sways, etc
I thought that it was extremely well balanced. Hence the reason why i’m on the hunt for a WRB Limited. Wish that i could afford a Series.Blue.
Sometimes it's fun to be able to accelerate down an onramp regardless of how twisty the roads usually are. Or, sometimes race tracks have long straights and lots of turns. See Brainerd or Road America. Re: Miata, I drove a modified one a number of years ago. I hated it. I don't care how good a car is in the turns, if it's slow as f*cking hell trying to merge on a freeway, yet advertised as a modern sports car, it's stupid. Supercharge it then. Keep the linear powerband. Point is, it's too slow. You can defend it with the cornering prowess all you want, but the fact remains that it doesn't have enough HP.
Personally you really don't need FI to get the extra power that this car can really shine with. Just going with e85 a quality header and tune and it bumps you north of 200whp. That is more then enough to merge onto a freeway and hit the holes and change lanes in traffic if you understand how to drive this car in its powerband. It will never be like a mustang or vette where you see where you wanna go and you just mash the go peddle. The car was not designed to be this kind of car. If they had designed it with more power and to maintain what its goal was the car would not of costed around 30k it would have been north of 40k and thats not the market this car fits in. Hell one could argue they have struggled to even sell it in the market it was designed for thanks to the cheaper scion version. Most people that bought this car bought it for a beat the snot out of it track car that was driven above 5k rpm 90% of the time. It is not a fun car to daily drive. If you bought it to be a daily driver you bought the wrong car.
Oh I agree, I get killed in the straights on BIR (assuming the person knows how to drive...otherwise I have no problem keeping pace with an STI around the BIR comp course if the driver is mediocre). Road America? Snooze fest. Let me ask you, (this is purely conversational, and I'm not trying to poke the bear), have you driven a BRZ/FRS? If so, was it on the track? On the street? Did you get sideways...even just a little? And then let me ask, have you driven a RWD V8?
I haven't driven one. I've ridden in an NA FRS and in a supercharged BRZ. I'd take the supercharged one any day of the week. No sideways was had. I haven't driven a FUN RWD V8 (rode along in a few, including a fairly modded but still NA [cams, etc] S10 with a 6 liter), but I have driven a RWD V8. For RWD car with stupid HP, I'd have to say the RB26 powered 1st gen RX7 fits that bill. Broke traction in 3rd at half throttle. That got a bit sideways...at 60 going straight lol Keep in mind that everyone has their own thing, and that's fine. You strike me as a more technical driver especially with the autocross and shorter course stuff you seem to gravitate towards. I'm a f*cking hooligan, so while I appreciate good handling (I did have over a thousand miles of track time on the LGT, plus other stuff I've done in other cars) and love carving canyons and mountain roads out west, and twisties along the river between here and WI, I also need the car to make me do the Matt Farah "WHEEE" when I pound the go-pedal. Realistically, stock for stock the BRZ isn't much slower than the civic, but the civic is a DD. I couldn't have a modern (2010+) sports car as a side car that wasn't faster than my DD. The Supra is a bit different as a classic, so that's apples and oranges (not to mention the Supra is easy to make much faster than stock).
I do secretly wish that they made an awd variation. That said, i would still buy the rear wheel drive one.
Thought about this further. Leave the regular BRZ alone I guess but the STI version should 100% have more hp.
Agreed! I don’t think that it’s a smart move on Subarus behalf to release as STi version that doesn’t have more power. They ALWAYS have more power. And the BRZ should be no exception!
Oh derp, if you only knew.... 1. How great it really is to drive a BRZ. 2. How great a fun RWD V8 is to drive. 3. How badly I have the itch for more power. No seriously, I wasted a good couple hours yesterday looking at the 16+ Camaro SS 1LE. I know what you're thinking...Camaro?? What an idiot! However, the 16+ Camaro switched to the new Cadillac ATS platform and lost some weight. The 1LE is getting rave reviews for the track, and I want one. Corvettes are also high on my list. Anyway, going back to #1, you really have to drive a BRZ/FRS to understand. You're welcome to take mine for a spin (once it's out of storage) - seriously. You're even welcome to join me for a codrive at an autox. The stock form is arguably the most fun, but certainly not the fastest. To this day, one of the most joyous drives that I had in my FRS, was the one track night wherein I brought my FRS on the crappy stock prius tires. The thing was an absolute riot to drive...complete drift machine, but completely controllable. I was smiling ear to ear. A couple track nights later, I drove it for the first time with 17x9's (instead of my usualy 17x7's), and that was the first time that I felt it needed more power. I could barely unsettle the thing. Which brings me to #2 - V8's are glorius. Better than any turbo or supercharged anything. Even low HP V8's...they still have a ton of torque. Our WRL car is a '92 SC400 (V8) with a manual swap. Only 250hp at the crank, but it is linear, torquey, responsive, and a ton of fun to drive. I would take that lower power V8 over any turbo. I run slower lap times in that car compared to my FRS (at least until our new SC400 build is done), but I sure love the "go" pedal on the SC. I don't think the BRZ/FRS chassis is really capable of handling too much extra power (~50hp+). Drop in a V8, and you've ruined the balance. Any increase in power demands significantly wider and stickier tires. I've "driven" a rocket bunny FRS (I say "driven" because it was in Project Cars on my sim rig...however there is also a stock FRS and it drives pretty much like the real thing), and that rocket bunny was an abomination to drive. Nothing...nothing...nothing...WHOOAA HOLY WHAT THE F^&(*^ and into the wall. So, when a person says or thinks that the BRZ/FRS needs more power, what they really need, is a different car. Sure, people do add turbos, blowers, V8's, etc to the twins, but in the long run, buying a different car that already has a V6 or V8 will be cheaper and more reliable. That's just my person opinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me...to each their own. For me, the FRS has been an excellent autox car. However for the full track, and even street driving, I definitely want more power. (Granted banging through the gears on the street generally doesn't get you into jail-time speeds...so that is pretty fun). If I could have it my way, I would have an FRS for autox and a vette/camaro/something for the full track, and perhaps even the street. I tried selling my wife on that idea, but she wasn't too into it Anyway, thanks for listening to my endless babble. I feel like I'm turning into one of those dudes that creates forum post rants that are waaaaaayyy tooo long
I haven't driven a BRZ yet either, had a very lightly modified '91 240SX when I was younger and enjoyed every mile I put on it. My SBC S10 is alright but doesn't have LSD. Also had a few chances to drive my dad's built fox body Mustang and it was crazy fast (at the time) but not quite as much fun as the 240. I love how planted and stable my WRX is but often wish I could throw it around without being on dirt or snow. On wet pavement it'll get a little loose and that just leaves me wanting more. I've thought about getting a BRZ too but it'd be really tough for me to part with the WRX.
1. Eh. 2. Based on the truck I believe you. 3. Told you so? You apparently don't know what I'm thinking because I think the new camaros are sweet. You need to move to Saudi Arabia for that.
I usually won't say no to driving someone else's car. Unless it's a miata. Then I will almost always say no.
I have a nice little streach of road between my house and st paul park that runs down by the river and what not. Road is a little rough and narrow but still fun.
To me it's the pricepoint. Because clearly, many people do indeed want a light, nimble, rwd sportscar that also has power. I'm sure you can think of several . You bought your frs for a good price, used. Good value there esp given the application (albeit incredibly narrow compared to the avg consumer). But at $26k+ for a new brz (and $33k+ for the ts) it's not exactly cheap. It's not exactly expensive either so good on subaru/toyota for slotting it into a market segment that doesn't have much room to complain... or much buying power compared to one of those "has it all" exotics. Personally I'd like to see the brz line expanded and offered with a variety of engine options. Much like the bottom bitch money maker camaros and mustangs you mentioned.
Touche on all points Totally agree here too - and that was the reason why I waited a couple years before buying one. No way was I going to trade my STI even up for a little car that had half the power and half the drive wheels. It would be nice if they offered another engine or an STI version. Granted it would have to be priced accordingly, but it's proven to work. Camaros start at $25k and top out at $70k+. Mustangs have a similar price range. However I don't think that Subaru has nearly the sales volume to justify several models...they hardly sell these things.
Yet here we are with a "tuned by sti" but not badged as "sti" brz... for a lot of extra monies. Here's an interesting read: https://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-wrong-about-subaru-brz-and-scion-fr-s-sales-1540661520 Seems to me (anecdotally of course) that sales started off fine if not great but have tapered off. I'm inclined to think that part of that drop off has to do with the lack of advancement in certain areas... namely the engine/power output. Meanwhile the market is swinging towards affordable horsepower in all sorts of stupid cars... you can get a 700hp factory warrantied Jeep GC for christs sake. But you can't get a brz with 250hp? And now there's a new brz that's 10k more with +5hp? Anyway, chalk this ts model up as another car I barely cared about and have already forgotten about.
