Hey, So I was thinking (which normally gets me into trouble) and I was wondering if anyone had dropped an H6 3.oL into a WRX or STI? Well I did a little research and came across this link: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1187722 Why don't we see more than this? It looks like a pretty intense install...but well worth the time. What are your thoughts?
You've got a point there. There are folks that are building race engines and dropping 10-20K, but for the average Joe it is a bit out of the price range.
I just lightly skimmed that Perrin build. Did they give a total cost? I know it's out of my financial ballpark.
The reason you don't see it very often is because it is more of a novelty thing. You can put in H6 into an impreza pretty easily since the mount points and such are close to the same. Most of it is in the wiring. But the expenses come when you have to adapt the motor to a car that was intended to run a 4cylinder. Your intake and exhaust plumbing will likely be all custom, if you decide to go turbo all your stuff will be custom made, tuning will require a standalone system and the expense of having that tuned...for the exponential costs associated with getting a 6 cylinder to work in the Impreza, you can go with a proven setup for the 4 cyl. variety and be nearly as fast. The aftermarket support for the 3.0+ liter H6's just isn't there.
with the 3.6 comming on strong, I bet the aftermarket will catch on and I bet there will be alot of crossover parts shared between the two motors.
Doubtful. The N/A Subaru engine/power aftermarket has dwindled in the last few years and the average Tribeca or Legacy buyer isn't looking to mod their car. What parts would "crossover"?
I bet alot of exhaust parts, intake goodies can prolly be used on both, throttle bodies, can you swap heads and short blocks between the two?
I doubt it, but I haven't had a chance to see two of them side by side. I really don't see the 6 cyl Subarus becoming much more than they already are. Like Jason said, they're a novelty more than anything else. The market isn't there to support the costs of trying to produce and market performance parts for them. On an unrelated note (and this isn't directed fully at you Putz) but what's with using "prolly" instead of "probably"? I've been seeing it more and more and I can't understand why. It's not a word, and is typing the extra two letters really that hard?
kinda off topic, but yeah, to type "probably" your fingers have to march all over the key pad, and "prolly" does require much less effort at the expence of looking lazy and under educated. I would like to know IF the heads and SBs are interchangable. also, you must understand that the main sales push by Subaru is the "3.6R" and the "GT" is being kept a 2.5T for "Lagacy" purposes. St. Cloud Subaru recieved delivery of their 2010 legacys yesterday..... not even one turbo in the bunch. THE PUSH THIS TIME AROUND IS "3.6R".
I would bet that 9 out of 10 Legacy buyers (or more) that are looking to modify the car are going to go after the turbocharged model. It's far more cost effective to go with a F/I platform rather than try to convert an N/A motor. The 3.6l is a great motor for what it is, and I don't think that there will be much aftermarket demand (if any) for power mods.
agreed on all points, but..... I think you are underestimating the demand for the 3.6 that WILL exist in the near future. People will be looking for bolt on power, and the volume of 3.6l cars that will be sold, there will be owners looking for more out of their N/A subies. Not power from converting so much, but bolt on power. I do agree on all other points.
no. The 36 has Dual-AVCS whereas the 30DR only has it on the intake side, so the timing chain design is a bit different. the asymmetrical rods to allow the extra displacement are not really high-hp friendly. So the discussion of 36 heads on a 30 (stronger shortblock with dual AVCS) came up pretty quick after the 36 came out, and it became pretty clear that they were not interchangeable. with some cash, the EZ30DR is capable of some pretty sweet power (more specifically....TORQUE!). but at a pretty extreme cost. subaru 4-cyls are already a bit on the pricey side to modify, the 6s.....yea. now, if you were to leave it "stock" (N/A). any of the H6s are a pretty good option (well...I wouldn't put the ER27 into anything, good motor in an XT6, but not worth the effort to swap). although you have to go standalone with any of the "R"s, as they have immobilizers in stock form. There's a guy in Colorado that put a standard EZ30D from an '01 Outback in his XT6 this spring. about 200fwhp (yes, it's FWD) with a stock motor.....yea, pretty cool. I'd love to put an EZ36DR with a Link Plus running closed-loop AVCS/AVLS control, long-tube headers and a 5EAT in my XT6 :yumyum::yumyum: Edit: You speak of the volume of 36s.....did I miss something? are they going to put them in the legacies now? I was under the impression that they were just a Tribeca thing. not exactly a demographic looking to modify.
yes, very many leggys will have the 3.6 as an option. The 2.5 can come equipt with a CVT tranny as well, sounds very intresting to me. bummer about the 3.6 heads not fitting.
The 2010 legacy has the 3.6 yes. The only transmissions avail are the 5eat (turbo and 6 cyl only) a 6mt (NO not the sti 6mt, or even the spec b 6mt for that matter, but rather a modified 5MT) or the CVT, the CVT is the ONLY automatic available on the 4 cylinder N/As.
Yep. The CVT is new for 2010, I believe. The goal is to increase mileage, I think. The last Subaru with a CVT in the US was the Justy, wasn't it?
Yup. I just don't see there being a lot of people trying to modify that 3.6l, even with bolt ons. The main demographic that's going to be purchasing that car isn't going to be interested in modifying the car. Those few who do are either going to have to fab something up or live with stock parts. The market is small enough that it just isn't worth it for performance companies to put the time and effort into developing an exhaust. Just look at what Cobb Tuning used to offer for n/a Subarus vs now. I could see Borla (maybe) coming out with something, but that's about it. Define "very many", I'm curious as to the percentage of 6 cylinders vs N/A 4s vs Turbo 4s.
one more time for those who didn't read it earlier... Brian want a cracker? anywhoo, the auto industry is entering a new stage and I think trends may change, and when people build real power out of these, opinions (even Brians) may change. Brian, you crack me up!:biggrin: Very Many: go to your Suby dealer and see that the 3.6r is selling for $28,000.00, see also: count how many 3.6 equipt cars on on the lot and you tell me what you think.
I'll bet you 50 bucks that it's not going to turn into any kind of trend. Why would anyone spend 28k on a car to modify when they're going to have to drop another 5k in parts and labor (at least) to get any kind of power increase out of it when they can get a turbocharged model and be developing serious power for a lot less? The numbers are on my side for this discussion. Subaru makes around 200k cars a year. Of those, the vast majority of them are Foresters and non performance models of the Impreza, Legacy and Outback and Tribeca. The 6 cylinder isn't marketed to the performance crowd, and for good reason. It's not cost effective to modify. Of the people who do buy a 3.6l Legacy, I would bet that less than 5 percent are going to even consider modifying the car. For every modified Subaru running around on sites like this and Nasioc or I-club, etc there are many, many more non modified ones, WRXs and LGTs included. Having worked on the sales side for Subaru, if they were to drop that 3.6l into a Forester they'd sell every single one they could crank out. I just don't forsee any increase in performance parts for them. :shrug: Edit: I just checked dealer inventories. From what I can tell Bloomington has the most 6 cylinders with two, but they've got 5 4 cylinders. I do need to check out the new Outback over at Mtka though :yumyum:
tell me how your hat tastes after 6 months go by. Do you wear ball caps? Or Fedoras? I bet they taste quite different.
Before I take your President Grant in January, I just want to clarify: You're betting there will be a large surge in performance parts for the Subaru 3.6l powerplant based on the fact that there will be "very many" Legacies equipped with it?
I'm a huge 6 cyl humper too, If any legacy came with the 6 speed and a 6 cyl I would turn my nose up at a comparable LGT.
Yeah, look at all of those performance parts you can get for the granola eating lesbian outback wagons everywhere.
well, assuming that I have $50.00 to spare in January, yes, that is about it, My predictions are as follows, 1) Cobb will create "OTS" maps for the N/A 3.6 leggys 2) There will be multiple companys that will make bolt on headers marketed to 3.6r drivers, also catbacks and what not. 3) (hard to quantify) but.... I beleive that 3.6r sales are going to bite-into 2010 wrx sales, to quantify will take (09 wrx sales vs. 3.0 leggy sale) and compare that in realationship to (2010 wrx sales to leggy 3.6r sales) and I bet you will see 2010 wrx sales drop in relation, 4) I predict that 3.6 leggy sales will increase and Lagacy GT 2.5T sales will be a lesser total percentage of legacy sales. 5) spt will release a broader span of goodies for the 2010 legacy then ever before. I don't feel all that confident about #1, but I think the rest are sure to happen. I also don't think that people will modify a "new car" so quickly, but I think we will see the begining of the trend, and the rise of the N/A 3.6 will be sure to follow. How about instead of $50.00, me and you get togather in January and split a Case of beer and some Tastey pizzas, and who ever looses pays the bill?:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
I figured between that and everything that's come out for the 2nd Gen Tribeca I'd be facing long odds but you can't win if you don't play...
Sure, but you should be warned that I don't drink and I'm not carrying you out of the bar. Considering that Cobb hasn't come out with the maps already is probably a strong indicator that they're not going to do anything. It doesn't cost much to make a map, and I'm sure they could see the writing on the wall that the 3.6 would be going to other cars than the Tribeca. There isn't a lot of cross-shopping between Legacies and Imprezas based on my own selling experience. Comparing sales of the 09 WRX and the 3.0R isn't a valid comparison in the least. Erik and Brian could tell us right now if SPT is releasing anything for the 6 cylinder models, and you'd have to prove that the lost sales on the '10 WRX bought '10 3.6l Legacys. You don't have a benchmark to see if the 3.6l is going to bite into turbo model sales, you'd have to interview each customer to find out why they picked the one they did and see if they considered the turbo model or vice versa. I'm going to enjoy my free meal though.
They dont even offer anything performance related for the 2.5i impreza. Nothing new is going to come out from SPT for anything N/A, probably ever.
you don't wanna drive my 93', it's is soooo scary!!! (not scary fast, more like life threatening unsafe emenent component failure type scary)
me getting shot just injures me....(and blood is harder to clean out of upolstery), but in my car we could both die.:laugh:
besides.... I'm not a big puker, I wish I could somtimes, but since I don't I just end up with hangovers once or twice a year when I decide to realy go at it. Now with the Baby, it is even harder to drink that much, When you know that there is another person depending on you ability to provide care you tend not to over-do-it so much. I won't drive even after "A beer", I just don't wanna deal with the remote possibility that I could get a DUI or a DWI.
Well, I agree, Cobb is a long shot. As far as proving this, I think I only need to prove relative sale between the 2 modles in question as compared to the relationship of the same (or comparison modles) from the previous year. Also, I think we should only need to prove that (POSITIVE % DIFFERENCE OF 2010 WRX UNITS SOLD COMPARED TO 2009 WRX UNITS SOLD) < (POSITIVE % DIFFERENCE OF 2010 3.6R LEGACY UNITS SOLD COMPARED TO 2009 3.0 LEGACY UNITS SOLD) also.... (% of total Legacy GT 2009 sales out of total 2009 Legacy sales) < (% of total Legacy GT 2010 sales out of total 2010 Legacy sales) But who is going to tell us what the sales numbers are/were? Where do we find this?
