A video I like

Discussion in 'Photo & Video Gallery' started by PRA4SNO, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. PRA4SNO
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    PRA4SNO Well-Known Member

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    This is great, and a perfect dessert to go along with the locked thread.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2_cV15mipeg



    Taras, just so we're straight. I volunteered, like everyone else. Its a great time to be in the military, because we VOLUNTEERED. For those who got in who have issues 'being in', they signed a contract, they KNEW what they were getting into. Its an internet age, its not like I couldnt go online and see the Marines in country making the ultimate sacrifice. I WANT to go to OIF/OEF. Every Marine I know is the same way, because we have spoken to those that have gone first hand. You forget about the women who are in school, now able to have a 100th of the opportunity you have. The kids that can go to a market where food is available vs rationed by the gov. The people that can CHOOSE their leadership, like we CHOSE ours.

    You have your words, and thats fine. I am happy that you can say anti government thing you wish, but remember that in 2002 in Iraq, voicing dissent against Saddam warranted death.

    And say what you want, Just dont tell someone in the military, stuff about the military. Ironically enough, I know quite a bit... you know...being here everyday...in uhh...the military.

    I'm really not trying to get in the last word. Taras, if you'd like to hear some stuff about what we're doing over there, I do train in the stuff that is going on, so that we can respond properly to the way the country is developing. I also take classes on all sorts of stuff from Arabic to cultural differences, to the tactics that they employ against the population of the country. If you want, PM me, and I can get you any information you want about that kind of stuff. I dont have any intention on personally insulting you, it just came out that way. I mean it in a general way, because its hard to sacrifice 4 years of a life with your family, home...etc, and then to have people tell you that you're doing something that merits no worth...it will put a ball in your throat, and cause you to clench up your fist.

    Anyways, take it as you will.

    Thankyou, and to all a good night..er...morning.
     
  2. Snowbum
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    Snowbum Well-Known Member

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    I lol'ed at HIPPIES!!!
     
  3. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify...Gore had more votes than Bush... Technically we didn't choose the current functional illiterate in the oval orifice. It sure helps to have your brother as the governor of the deciding state in an election!!! Thanks Jeb.

    Now, take care of business over there so we can get the hell out! ;) Your service is appreciated :)
     
  4. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    This had what to do with the original post?
     
  5. Frogy
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    Frogy Well-Known Member

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    PRA4SNO,

    I would imagine that the sort thing is that people like yourself are really helping to protect Tara's free thought and speech. I'm sure that people have said it before and will say it again, but here it goes anyway. Thank you for doing what you do!

    Have a good one
    HEF
     
  6. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    For the record, there is a difference between being against the current US administration, and being anti-war. Just because you believe that it was wrong/illegal/etc to go to war with Iraq, does not mean that you are anti-millitary or unpatriotic.

    It simply means you disagree with the direction the current US administration has brought the country.

    However, pissing on the military cannot be tolerated. Giving up your personal freedoms and fighting to protect our way of life is insanely honorable. The decisions and actions of the administration should not effect our view of the soldiers. They are simply doing their best to get the job done.

    Also, LOL at the daily show rocking as normal.
     
  7. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    Totally agree with you.
     
  8. gc8
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    gc8 Well-Known Member

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    Taras would be banned for starting a thread like this...








    ...just sayin
     
  9. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Except of course for last night when you made light of the sacrifices military members make by putting smug quotes around "serving" as if to say what the military members do for this country is anything less than servitude. Keep backpedaling.
     
  10. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    Enough. Seriously. E-frigging-nough.

    You should not be posting in political threads. Full stop. End of story. You promised you weren't going to do it when they let you back in last time, and last night you crapped all over that in your usual spectacularly stupid fashion. I've said it before and I've said it again. I have nothing against opposing view points. You're just incapable of putting out anything that you didn't get off MPR because you're too lazy to actually go and research anything, and you combine that with an incredible lack of understanding on how the world actually works rather than your version of it.

    [​IMG]

    FYI, you aren't tall enough.
     
  11. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    Gee, Brian i am sure all your info comes from Fox news and radio station Patriot. By putting quotation marks around the word serving i meant serving incompetent government and its failed agenda.
     
  12. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    He implied that we "chose" our leader. I was just making a sarcastic observation. Lighten up. :cool:

    And yes, Bullwinkle is right. I think Taras' argument is more about the misguided policies of the current administration and where it has taken this country. Maybe it just doesn't come out as articulate on the internet then in his mind. He obviously feels as passionately about the issues as everybody else does. He's just on the other side of the coin as other people. And it's a good thing he has the right to his opinion, as does everybody here.

    Our brave soldiers are the men and women who protect our country, our way of life, and when deemed necessary by those whole control the money in this country, go blow the hell out of little brown people. Their sacrifices are something that aren't taken lightly, and their service is greatly appreciated. We should never forget the things they have done for this country and hope for their safe return home to their families and friends so we can all get together and :cheers2:

    Side note* - Anyone who sits around and gets their information from CNN, FoxNews, and every other biased source, should realize that it is just that. It's all spun the way they want it. If you woke up from an 8 year coma and the only channel you had to watch was Fox or CNN, you would think the friggin sky is falling, you would stay inside with your doors locked, kneeling behind your front door with your 12 gauge cocked and ready. FEAR mongering at it's best! ;)
     
  13. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    You don't know me or where I get my news from. Unlike you, I actually go through a number of news sources and do my own research on the things I read. Try again. And you keep coming up with this "failed agenda" crap. What's failed? Things are better in both Iraq and Afghanistan than they were at this time last year, and they're continuing to get better. Sure, the current administration has made mistakes, but they've also done good things as well. Just like any other administration.


    WRXEcho, easy mang ;) I was just wondering where you were tying that in from. While I don't agree with your reasoning you're entitled to your opinion. Popular vote and electoral votes are two different things. It wasn't the first time that a President got the job without winning the popular vote.
     
  14. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    blah blah blah... yeah and like Gore has proved he has brains... Global warming.. ok sure sure...
     
  15. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    So Justin is entitled for his opinion and i am not?

    Whats better in Iraq? Is there less road side bombs? NO. Is there much less people dieing there? NO. Is there less troops there? NO.

    Some even thing that it was better when Saddam was in power
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/24/earlyshow/main1649689.shtml
     
  16. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    Communist Broadcast Station
     
  17. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    No worries...I could vent all day about the Bush's and Clinton's, but I won't pour gas on the fire.

    Except for one more jab: It also helped that Bush's campaign manager (or whatever she was) was the vote counter for Florida!!! hmmmm...:)

    Yes, I understand the difference between the electoral and popular vote, but why do we even have electoral votes? I mean, with a simple calculator you can tally up the popular votes and pronounce a winner. Sure, the electoral votes consolidate the votes, but whatever happened to "one man/one vote?"

    ...And why do men have nipples...?
     
  18. TSTRBOY2004
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    TSTRBOY2004 Well-Known Member

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    ask Erik... something about manboobs I think
     
  19. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    Swing and a miss Taras. Did you bother reading the date on your article? Over two years ago. You know, before the surge. And (yet again) you're wrong about the violence levels and deaths. They're down compared to last year, and have been at some of the lowest levels yet. Apparently you can't even be bothered to read your own articles. Did you happen to see where some of them said the US made the right decision? Or the part where all of them agreed that the US should not pull out until it's over? Thanks for helping prove my points. Your lack of research is as painful as it is funny.
     
  20. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    Its too late to pull out now thats for sure. Just look whats going on in Afghanistan right now. Taliban is back on a rise, because all the attention is on Iraq. There were more troops killed in Afghanistan just a month ago than in Iraq.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/washington/02military.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

    So yeah, too late to pull out should have done it a few years ago, now new tactics need to be used not old once that obviously does not work.
     
  21. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Oh Nathan...always trying to stir the pot. :)

    I wasn't saying that Gore would've saved the world, though he tries.

    Global warming is a scientific fact. Yes, it's all a cycle of the earth and it's correction of itself, but it is greatly accelerated, and we should take a part in not making it worse. There's a 50/50 chance that the polar ice cap could be all water this summer...doesn't that seem a little strange to you?

    It doesn't matter anyway as I was only being sarcastic in my initial post. It's a moot point. Bush is our brainless leader, and we must deal with it. Soon Barack will be in office and everything will CHANGE!!! McCain just isn't worth it...But then again, I'm an independent so I don't think either of them are worthy.
     
  22. sjwelna
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    sjwelna Well-Known Member

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    "BOARDS!!!! AHHHHH HIPPIES!!!!" :laugh:

    That was hilarious. Seriously, what a bunch of middle-aged house wives with nothing better to do than protest the people defending their own right to free speech. :roll: Oh yeah, and get rid of all the weapons because weapons kill people............:banghead: What a waste of protoplasm.

    -Steve
     
  23. EtchyLives
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    EtchyLives Well-Known Member

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    I'll post some of my personal insight on this discussion if Taras and Brian promise to stop personally attacking each other.
     
  24. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    OK i am done. For real this time.
     
  25. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    yes please. I would really like to hear it. And no i am not being sarcastic. very honest right now.
     
  26. prezawagon
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    prezawagon Well-Known Member

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    Not the whole ice cap, and I've read there's a chance, I haven't seen the 50/50 statistic. I think 50/50 was referring to a bet some scientists had between themselves. There is a chance the north pole could be ice free, the geographic north pole. And that's really more of a symbolic thing than anything else.
     
  27. EtchyLives
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    EtchyLives Well-Known Member

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    Waiting on the other team.
     
  28. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    Correct. I heard the 50/50 thing on the radio the other day...wcco, the fan, or kstp. One of those.
     
  29. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    not mpr?;)

    jk...
     
  30. prezawagon
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    prezawagon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think the news outlets just jumped on the chance to make a dramatic headline. The real story is that the ice cap is shrinking, same as it has been for a while now, just one specific point could be water this summer.
     
  31. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    drama and excitement is what the media lives on.
     
  32. EtchyLives
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    EtchyLives Well-Known Member

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    Fixed for accuracy.
     
  33. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    It's a natural cycle of the earth, but the concern is around the accelerated rate that it's at due to the human imprint. I'm no Richard Branson or Al Gore, but I do what I can, when it's possible. :)
     
  34. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    Hmmm...so you post an article dated over 2 years ago, which said that we shouldn't pull out and then you tell me that we should've pulled out a few years ago? Come on, which is it? Did you happen to catch the part in there where it said troop deaths in Iraq were falling? I would imagine we're going to be looking at a surge over to Afghanistan as well. Did you also read the rest of the article? Where it talked about weather being a factor, when the snow melts the insurgents come out? Or did you catch the part about the Pakistani government making peace deals with militants, who then increase the number of attacks? We're going to need to put more troops over there to do the job, that's the consensus of the ground commanders. They're the ones over there doing the job. I'd be curious to see the casualty reports for the other side, because I'm betting they lost a lot more than 30-40 people. No, I don't like losing our own people. My idea of a fair fight is our people come home, screw the opposition. However, our soldiers/sailors/Marines/airmen volunteered to do the job they're doing. They knew the risks involved and they still did it. That's courage and selflessness.
     
  35. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    To quote Doc Holiday, "Proceed, sir."
     
  36. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    At my signal, unleash hell ;)


    ...aaaaand go.
     
  37. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    you're building it up too much Brian...It's like when everybody talks a movie up so much, you go and see it and think it really wasn't that good. Prepare yourself for a let-down... :)
     
  38. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    Nah, I know he'll have something decent to say about it. He's got some firsthand experience with the subject at hand.

    That being said, this better be good.












    ;)
     
  39. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    I think he just duped you and Taras into a cease fire...warning level at yellow.
     
  40. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    we are like Israel and Palestine, cease fire will last for a day or two tops. :)
     
  41. WRXEcho
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    WRXEcho Well-Known Member

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    [YOUTUBE]Z_0EaOO7OFc&hl=en[/YOUTUBE]More like Laurel and Hardy ;)
     
  42. EtchyLives
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    EtchyLives Well-Known Member

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    Now you two be nice...

    What I won't be doing here: Supporting or attacking the decision to invade Iraq.

    First off, here are my qualifications:
    I am an intelligence officer in the Army. I spent Nov 2005 to Nov 2006 in Iraq. I was there when the dome was blown off the mosque in Samarra and saw the ****storm that went down afterwards. Operation SWARMER kicked off from my FOB. We handed over our first town to the Iraqis about half way through our deployment and to the best of my knowledge things are still pretty peachy there. Then I got to go play in Diyala just northeast of Baquoba in a place called Muqdadiyah. It's not as big as Baquoba nor is there a major military HQ there like in Baquoba but it was just as full of fun. Diyala is the converging point of some major Sunni and Shia sects and there's the Kurds. Muqdadiyah is 20 miles from the Iranian border so we had a bit of their influence, too.

    I spent a LOT of time in higher level meetings. Meetings of US commanders and meetings between US and Iraqis. It's EXTREMELY complicated to work through these things and you have to take in to account civil projects, US military objectives, US political objectives, Iraqi military and political objectives AND tribal/clan objectives.

    I would call our tour there a very large success on the local scale and we contributed to some small success on the grand scale. A lot of the bigger objectives we were working towards were achieved this year and friends of mine that are there now are saying that bad guys and groups we were after have been captured/removed and that makes me happy.

    Now that you have a bit of my background I'll post my position: Removing troops from Iraq at this point would erase all the gains that we've been steadily working towards over the last 3 years. I say 'three years' because up until 2005 things in Iraq were pretty chaotic and there was no steady progress.

    Iraq is getting better. Even when I was there the average Iraqi (I spoke to many of them through the course of my work) was pretty apathetic about the US presence but by and large they agreed that the US should stay. Their reasoning was that they were fearful of large-scale civil war if we left. Without the US there will be a huge power vacuum. That vacuum would draw the religious/govt/both powers of the surrounding countries (namely Iran and Syria but also the Kurds and various extremist groups) in and wide-scale bloodshed would follow. As it stands right now those same powers/entities/organizations are vying for power amidst the populace of Iraq but the US is working very hard to remove their influence. The biggest battle we (the US) has over there is not in the streets of Fallujah but in the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

    Once we convince the Iraqi people that we are not the enemy and that the enemy consists of the groups supporting violence we're half way there. As it stands right now I believe that Iraq (as a whole) is on the threshold of making that turn for a couple of basic reasons. 1. Most Iraqis are war-weary. 2. The insurgency has caused more instability than the US. Numbers one and two go hand in hand.

    I'm not going to go into details of history but a number of mistakes were made on the part of the US political and military establishment. There is a new article out where the military points out many of the mistakes they made and highlights some of the political mistakes are highlighted there, too. However we cannot go back and undo those mistakes. We can only learn from them and move forward.

    War weariness among Iraqis is HIGH. The main reason for this is the insurgency has tried very hard to inflame the religious, ethnic, and tribal affiliations of the average Iraqi through violence. With popular opinion of the average Iraqi towards the US being located somewhere near the bottom of the septic tank the various insurgent groups had very fertile ground to recruit people to their sides. However the US has worked very hard to turn that tide by focusing on knocking out the insurgency while at the same time rebuilding infrastructure and providing political stability. This is NOT an easy task to accomplish on a large scale. Different geographic regions are connected by different ties (tribal, clan, religious, political, economic) and what seems like a good idea in one area may have negative second and third-order effects in another. This double task of counter-insurgency and nation-building has been largely left to a military establishment NOT AT ALL designed to do either.

    Regardless, the soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines put in this position have done a marvelous job considering that they mostly consist of high-school graduates.

    However as of early-2007 there was a problem: When the pressure was on in one area (Baghdad) then the smart insurgents (and they are smart) would bug out to a different area. Insurgent whack-a-mole. The idea of the surge was put forth by the military and authorized. It worked.

    Remember I told you I worked in Diyala. When I was there we played whack-a-mole with the troops in Baghdad. Baghdad did a surge (pulling some of the soldiers from units in Diyala) and violence would spike in Baquoba or Muqdadiyah. We would surge and Baghdad would light up like Christmas. The surge allowed more troops to go on the offensive in Baghdad and then hold their ground while a follow-up surge was conducted in Diyala (and a few other provinces). The result: relative peace and quiet.

    Peace and quiet is important because it allows the average Iraqi to go out and shop, travel, and run their businesses without worrying about getting killed. It also allows our civil-military units to rebuild infrastructure with fewer fear of having their Iraqi workers (yes. Despite Halliburton's best efforts most of the building is done by Iraqis) killed for aiding the Americans. When Iraqis are able to live and work in peace they tend to get pissed off at the insurgents when they come back and cause trouble. It becomes economically advantageous for the Iraqis to promote peace and tattle-tale on their neighbor with the Bomb in his basement. This is why we need to stay.

    According to my friends in theater they are having great success with local political leadership and civilians in the area because the average Iraqi can now see that American troops bring peace and insurgents bring trouble. The result is more accurate intelligence about insurgents and now we have the troops available to go root out those insurgents. There are fewer and fewer safe-havens available for the insurgency and that downward trend will continue as long as we stay in Iraq.

    When can we leave? I don't know for sure. That is a question that should be answered by the commanders on the ground. Gen Petraeus told the same thing to Congress and the President. If we leave too soon then the insurgency will rise again and take back their former safe-havens. Without enough troops, the innocent Iraqis that want nothing more than to live in peace with their families will end up being coerced into violence.

    If the United Stated wants to leave Iraq a better place for the long term then we need to stay there for the long term. That sucks for me. That sucks for Jack. That sucks for lots of taxpaying Americans who have to fund this war. However the alternative is a regional religious war fought in Iraq (which is SO conveniently located smack-dab in the middle of the Middle East) that will destabilize the global economy and quite possibly lead to a bigger more costly war.

    More to Follow... something something Afghanistan or Iraq...
     
  43. Taras
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    Taras BANNED

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    LoL! Thats awesome! So cheesy. "we are on mine field step on it" LOLOL.
     
  44. PRA4SNO
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    PRA4SNO Well-Known Member

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    Actually Taras, you're wrong on all three.

    Iraq as a nation is coming together incredibly fast. So much that in the Marine Corps, we'd rather go to Afghanistan, because Iraq is just "boring" now.

    I heard from a Gunny that when he was in Iraq a month ago they were on a patrol in Baghdad, just walking the street. It was his fireteam (4 marines) and a squad of Iraqi police whom they were training. (14 men). A gunshot went off maybe a mile away, and he said they all jumped. He said violence in the cities has decreased THAT much, that a 3 time combat vet jumped at a SINGLE gunshot (the first one he'd heard in 9 days).

    The Iraqi people no longer tolerate insurgents. We watched a video taken from a dash cam in a HMMV of a woman standing right in the middle of the street waving and pointing at them to stop. They stopped, talked to her, and she told them there was A. an IED a mile down the road, and B. The location of the trigger man, his get away vehicle, and 3 weapons caches that her family found. They are realizing it is THEIR country now, and that putting up with terrorists coming in from Syria, the arab emerates, etc. isnt going to fly.

    The number of Marines in Iraq has also significantly dropped. We hardly go out in force anymore, and are simply watching the Iraqi police take over the job. Currently 80% of our missions are called "marine prescence" which are to let the Iraqi people know that we are STILL there to help them while the transition takes place. The other 20 are snatch and grabs of insurgents who are flagged by the citizens.

    Troop deaths in Iraq AND Afghanistan have been under 5 every month for the past nearly half a year. The Marine corps sustained more fatalities from traffic related accidents than KIA's this month than we have in the past 4 from combat.

    Civilian casualties are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than they ever have been, and those deaths are being caused by insurgents desperately trying to provide propaganda to call the few stupid enough to respond to their cause.

    I figure that might help a little bit. That is also ALL taken FIRST HAND from units we have operated with, and Marines who have had their boots on the deck, in country.
     
  45. ShortytheFirefighter
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    ShortytheFirefighter Pokemans. I has none. Staff Member

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    I view it more along the lines of this:

    [​IMG]

    Or perhaps this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]