I just ordered an Accessport and plan on getting a turbo back exhaust about the time my Accessport arrives (4 weeks). I have a Prodrive axle back so I'll need the piping in between. Does it matter what down and mid pipe I get? Or, are the dimensions/functions all the same? Also, should I replace the uppipe at the same time as the others? I don't have a good work space and I'm not sure I want to or am capable of doing it myself. If I replace the uppipe, will that mess with the off the shelf stage 2 map? I don't have much experience with this sort of thing and would appreciate any advice I can get.
Well, to do the uppipe you need to pull the downpipe, so you will already have half of it taken apart. As for the ap, the uppipe will not effect the stg2 map, once you start running headers (pnp manifolds) and certain intakes, thats when you will start running into issues. The ap stg maps are programed for a certain amount of air flow, and when that gets changed, you will not have enough gas to support the increased airflow. I would go with a bell mouth dp like the helix, invidia, etc. Russ
Yeah i just picked up my AP yesterday and Justin is powdercoating my Invidia V3 divorced DP as we speak hopefully haha. Right now i just have the Invidia G200 Catback on. I went the easier route with both dp and catback from the same maker i'm not sure if you'll have any issues mating two different makers up to each other. From what i hear though Stage II is TMFW!!!!! I'll give ya my personal opion here in a week or two haha.
So, let's say I get the Helix down pipe. Can I then get the other pipes from Helix and mate them to my Prodrive axle back? Will the uppipe improve my performance with the rest of the stage 2 pieces and if so, how much? I want to do this one time and do it correctly. I don't plan on any other power mods after this. All suggestions welcome. Thanks for input so far. Slavboy, I'll be curious to hear your impressions when you get it done.
Yes. I would suggest getting atleast the dp when you are ready to do the up. You will need to pull the dp to do the up, so it has already been removed. As for extra performance be adding the uppipe, if won't be a seat of the pants feeling, but it will help a bit with spool. As far as I am concered it is also a safety thing, cuz if that cat ever comes apart, you will kill your turbo. Russ
I was thinking about it the other way around. My main objective was the dp because that's what the stage 2 package calls for. And then, as long as I was at it, do the uppipe too. You make it sound like the uppipe is the priority or am I reading this wrong?
I am talking on the install side. The downpipe has to be removed to install the uppipe. So if you just install the dp and go back later to install a uppipe, you will have to pull the dp out for the install. You are correct tho, you need the dp for stg2, and the up is just a option. Russ
I'm guessing that you have a 2.5" Prodrive axelback? If so, there are really only a few options. One is to get the the TurboXS stealthback system (4" shorty downpipe, 3" cat section, 3" tapering to 2.5" rear midpipe). This would be the best way to go, imho. Otherwise, you could get a standard 3" downpipe that uses a donut gasket and the TurboXS 3"-->2.5" rear midpipe (I'm not 100% certain this would work, though). Your other option would be to get a standard 3" downpipe that uses a donut gasket to fit the stock catback section, and then just use the stock rear midpipe. Otherwise, you could just sell me the axelback and use that money towards a full 3" catback and a standard 3" downpipe with a flat flange. I'd even help you install it in my garage. PM me if you are interested. :biggrin:
There are 3 different kinds of downpipes in terms of fitment for length and flanges used: shorty -- designed to replace only the factory downpipe, and leave the 3rd cat untouched -- Crucial and TurboXS come to mind regular -- designed to replace both the factory downpipe and 3rd cat -- the majority of downpipes are of this design. The critical thing to look for is the type of flange they use at the catback joint. Some use a flat flange, and therefore must be used with an aftermarket catback with the same type of joint. The other flange used is a donut style flex joint that will work with the stock catback.
Nope. My logs indicated that my motor was knock free with the ots stg2 maps and an uppipe (plus a few other things).
If you're going with the helix or any downpipe that ends in a 3" flat flange, you can do what Im doing: 1) Helix downpipe (3" bellmouth, flat flange) 2) Maddad intermediate pipe (3" flat flange ->2.5" comes in 2 versions: stgraight pipe and w/resonator) 3) 2.5" axleback (including prodrive) You could also have a mufflershop make you an intermediate section.
^^^ good advice. I knew that there was one other company out there that sold a 3-->2.5" rear midpipe, but didn't know who it was.
'03 Wagon Yes, my Prodrive is the 2.5''. I called TurboXS and the salesmen sounded like he knew what he was talking about. He said he could get me the pieces to mate up to my axle back. The question is, do I trust him to send me the correct pieces or not? Some more questions: 1. Would the TurboXS be the "bellmouth" dp like Russ suggested earlier? 2. Should I eliminate the 3rd cat? Assuming there's a performance advantage to eliminating it, how much hp does it give? 3. How much louder will my car be w/the uppipe, dp and 3rd cat eliminated? I sometimes have to take clients or potential clients in my car. I try to stay off the gas but when I do hit the gas they often get that look that says, "didn't I get into a Subaru grocery getter?" I have the silencer removed. 4. Uppipes - What's a good one? Anything to look out for when buying one or are they all pretty much the same? The stuff is never as simple as it seems. I like the idea of going with one company for everything for convenience sake (i.e. TurboXS). But, I don't want to leave power on the table. I really do appreciate all the advice. I have a feeling you'll be seeing a lot more of my ignorant butt.
Fong may be excited to hear that... but the rest of us may just prefer to see you car around... ha ha ha:biggrin: :laugh:
Assuming you are using an off the shelf map... powerwise, you will likely gain more power from a protune than from using different hardware (catted vs catless, etc)... anyway, to answer yr questions: 1) 4" bellmouth that tapers to 3" 2) Minimal gain until you start hitting high hp... disadvantages to having no cats: smell, environment, possibly get yellow/black soot on bumper, smog test (some states), and smell again. 3) the muffler will have the largest impact on sound... Prodrive is reviewed as being one of the best (most quiet) in this regard. The resonator may also play a noticeable role in a wagon (I have no experience with a wagon, but resonatorless is not really noticeable to me in a sedan). 4) someone else will chime in on the uppipe but I think the biggest difference bt them is flex/non-flex... regarding the downpipe tho, one thing to look out for with the turboxs is clearance. Apparently its a bit low for some users. As I mentioned earlier, maddad (daddysscp) makes an intermediate pipe section... so if you want same manufacturer/another option, you can get a bit of a discount buying their stealthback system (full length dp and intermediate pipe). Dont worry about the questions... keeps the boards going and researching this stuff can only yield so many answers
NO he isnt.. I just give him lots of crap on the forum and he tries to give it back... ha ha ha we are the entertainment occasionally online.. YES I DID back you up FONG.... ha ha ha... hmmm now that you got me thinking about it.. maybe just mayeb he is LESBIAN!!!
I think I'm going with the TurboXS Stealthback. Anyone have a reason not to go this route? TurboXS has an uppipe for $170, which seems reasonable. Should I get one that flexes or not?
Well, jk78 was selling a flex uppipe in our forums for $130 or so. You could also talk to Steve-o, he has a pretty good hookup for flex uppipes. Russ
I got one of EBay for $90... have had it installed for over 16mths not oen problem yet... why pay twice the price on a product that doesn trequire it.. but hey your $$$ man... I think mine was teh ERZ...
Shorty downpipe + gut your third cat + Prodrive Axle back. That is the best and cheapest option. And yes, ERZ flex uppipe is a nice cheap uppipe that works. I had one once, it worked great.
I don't think I can justify removing the 3rd cat. And, it seems whenever I try to do things cheaply, I realize again you get what you pay for. That's the primary reason I'm leaning toward ordering a Stealthback. I don't want to have difficulties installing something with fitment issues, etc...
^you can keep the stock 3rd cat then. You dont have to gut it. You will definitely have less fitment issues if you keep stock parts (ie, midpipe with 3rd cat intact and intermediate pipe like readymix suggested)
The more questions I ask, the more confused I get. So far, this is what I "think" I have learned. 1. Get an uppipe with a flex joint in it. It doesn't really matter the manufacturer as they are all about the same. 2. Get a downpipe w/4" bellmouth tapering to 3". 3. Eliminating the 3rd cat won't net me much if any performance gains so don't do it if you're concerned with pollution (which I am). Now, I originally thought there were 3 sections to the exhaust, after the turbo. The down pipe, the mid section (where the 3rd cat is) and the axle back. And this was causing me some confusion. There are actually 4 sections, right? 1) Down pipe 2) section w/3rd cat 3) intermediate section 4) axle back section????? Now, if I get a down pipe, don't I have to buy an different mid section so they will fit together? Because idget just suggested leaving my mid section as long as I'm leaving the cat in. I'm sorry if I'm making this harder than it needs to be. Insult me, call me a noob, whatever you have to do to feel better but please, set me straight.
That is correct. The TXS stealthback will replace # 1-3. I'm not sure if you can leave the stock 3rd cat in as I think the lengths of the various pieces are of different length (but end up as the same total length up to the axelback). Your best bet is to get a system that has a high-flow cat that is meant to go with it. :biggrin:
I hope this clears up any confusion and doesnt add to it... 1) yes. Also, upipe houses the 1st cat. 2) no, it does not have to be 4" tapering to 3" (this is offered by turboxs). It can be 3" bellmouth or divorced wastegate. Both will be much better than the stock plate design. The downpipe has 2 sections. Each with a cat. The 3rd cat section on its own is referred to as the midpipe. When shopping for downpipes, you can buy either the first section, the second section, or a full length pipe that isnt divided into 2 parts. a) You buy the first section (the section you see under the intercooler in the engine bay) - this is referred to as the shorty downpipe. You can connect yr stock 3rd cat section to this shorty pipe to make a full length pipe. (You could also get a high flow cat for this 3rd section, a straight pipe, or gut the stock section) b) You can buy the full length downpipe which contains both section. These come in a variety of configurations. Many have no cats. Some, like the Cobb catted version, retain a high flow cat where the 3rd cat would be. Others retain a high flow cat where the 2nd cat was (like the Helix) 3) If you are going catted, yr options are to get a full length with cat (Helix, Cobb, Invidia, Maddad, maybe others) or to get a shorty and mate it to either the stock 3rd cat or an after market high flow midpipe. A catback includes an intermediate pipe. Look under the car, it is a 4 foot long pipe that goes in between the axleback and the 3rd cat. This pipe houses a resonator that looks like a cat to some. If you buy a downpipe... (both sections here) you still have 4 ft of piping (the intermediate pipe). This is all fine so long as the end of the downpipe mates up to it. The helix full length downpipe (as well as others) has a flat flange where the stock 3rd cat has a donut flange (there are ways around this, but for best fitment, I'd suggest going flat-flat, or donut-donut). So, as readymix was saying, the cheapest solution that fullfills all of yr requirements is to buy a shorty downpipe, mate this to yr stock 3rd cat, mate this to yr stock intermediate pipe, and slap on the prodrive axleback. There are several shorty downpipes in the sub $200 range such as Bosal and Stromung (both divorced wastegate). I'm sure there is a bellmouth shorty in that range as well. The next cheapest catted option is the option Im using (Helix). The turboxs catted stealthback option is an option as well, but is not the most economical solution. Also, Im not entirely sure that they manufacture a 2.5" axleback adapter... I know they have a 3" for sure.
They most certainly have a 2.5" axelback "adapter" (it's a 3" pipe that tapers to 2.5") as I own one.
