Anybody running AP Stage 1 on a 2.5L engine have any reviews? I see on the Cobb site that the 2.5L engine has very nominal power gains, is this accurate?
It sounds like the power gains are nominal for all vehicles and stage 1. It more smooths the power band out then add a bunch of power. The tunes aren't very aggressive and are built to suit the masses. You'll need a protune or a stage 2 to start seeing real power gains from the AP
Yeah, its small but very noticeable. I ran the stg1 map for a month or so on my 06 tr. Felt the same up top but much more driveable with the better throttle response and loads more torque. Gas mileage also went up from ~20 city to ~25 and from 24-25 highway to ~30mpg. If finances allow, I'd suggest going straight to stg2 at least...
Cobb is no better. I'm sure SOA would invalidate your warranty if you broke your driveline and were discovered to have an AP. Going back to the original thread, no, Cobb doesn't advertise big gains with the Stage 1 on the new 2.5L turbos. It's pretty worthless unless you install a DP and go to Stage 2. But if you go the OpenECU route, for the cost of an AP you can have a DP and a Stage 2 map. :biggrin:
Yup, I figure once the warrenty is gone I will go Stage 2. If I need to take the Suby in for some major service, I plan on reverting to stock just in case.
Right now, I would NOT recommend going to stage 2 (Cobb or openecu) on an '06+ WRX. There are some VERY serious issues with the ecu that nobody has figured out yet that can make the car detonate like crazy.
In a nutshell, there is currently no way to reduce total ignition timing below 11* under ~3800rpms, regardless of what you enter in for values. Not good, considering that the 3-3600rpm rev range is the area where the engine is the most prone to knock. Basically, you can enter in 0* of timing for those areas and will still get at least, if not more, 11* of total timing. From what I've seen, it seems to follow something like (11 + kc*dam). It's a HUGE pita to work on. So basically right now you are limited to running either race gas or very conservative loads under 4000rpms. It sucks.
If they found out about it, yes. Both products have a target market. AP makes tuning much more user friendly. You don't have to know anything about it if you use a OTS map (such as PDX) and for those that want to play around there's ST. AP also comes with a huge following and a good support base. All this of course comes at a cost Is that WRX only? I haven't seen this issue posted about with the STi's.
Yup, it's only an issue with the 2006 (and 2007 I think) WRX. Hopefully this gets resolved by this spring.
That sounds very odd that Subaru wrote a different program for the 2006 WRX ECU, or is using a different ECU entirely. I wonder why. Tom, did you experience this firsthand?
Yup, I'm looking at some logs right now. Give me a minute and I'll post up what I'm seeing in the form of a graph.
Ok, here's what I'm talking about. Crazy -- the timing goes all over the place. At least it isn't pulling timing so I guess I'll just have to live with it for now.
That's very bizarre. If not for the drive-by-wire, I'd wonder if one could swap in an old ECU. But I am sure they are no longer interchangeable.
Not knowing a massive amount about timing, you're a little over my head. I would, however, like to go stage 2 on my '06. You sound optimistic, so this problem can be fixed? Why is there no literature/warnings on Cobb's website RE this issue? -Nate
I'm hoping that the problem will get fixed soon. There are still a ton of maps in the ecu that neither Enginuity/Cobb/Ecutek has identified, so we are hoping that there is another correction map for the '06 WRX timing that hasn't been "found" yet. As far as Cobb not saying anything, I cannot comment on that. They aren't very specific about their maps for the most part since their tartet market isn't very educated on the whole ecu tuning thing. But I know that they are certainly aware of the issue since I've talked to a chap who spoke with Christian@Cobb about it a while back. IMHO, I would wait to go to stage 2 on your car until this gets resolved.
Yes, that does seem like the prudent thing to do. I would say that my engine's safety is #1, as the car is my DD. Any intelligent information RE the AP v. OpenECU track? I would like to jump to stage 1 soon, with a basic stage 2 (flash + TBE) as far as I'm willing to go. Would also like to keep as much of my warranty as possible
as far as the problems are concerned.. I would think this might be some of the reason cobb held out on the official release of the 2.0... I would think if a company sold engine management software that did more harm then good to your car there would be lawsuits in order, under the term theft by swindle, and damaged property. I doubt cobb would like to see that kinda class action lawsuit. Or let go a product that would hurt your well known baby. OPENECU, hence the love for it.... after reading the web loggins on it.. has fried more ecu's then any other tuning software and would seem likely to be so full of bugs it's not even funny. hence the free factor.... and why you would pay another company for there programming. One side is gaurenteed, the other is chance. again, you pay for what you get. After talking with cobb almost daily on the ap's new 2.0.... i'm confident in my 06 install with the 2.0. HOWEVER, due to the new ecu in the 07's .... they are holding the release untill they figure those out.
Well that's all nice and dandy that you are confident that the AP will work on your '06 STI. That isn't the issue here as this is ONLY related to the '06-07 WRX ecu.
pardon my lack of knowledge in ecu technology.. but isn't the ecu on the sti, the same ecu as in the wrx.. only.. different peramiters(sp)? (((didn't mean to sound like a ****... which I may have come off like.. wasn't intended)
No, they are different ecus. They are both very similar in function, but they are different. For example, you cannot burn an STi rom onto an '06 WRX ecu and vice versa. In fact, you cannot even burn an '04 STi rom onto an '05 STI rom. For some weird reason, only the '06-07 WRXs are showing this goofiness with the timing. Normally there is a "learned" component of total timing for all Subarus, but it has always been where it would never increase timing above what the map called for.
Yeah, I've got an '06 WRX. I named that Excel table that because it will work with both the '06 WRX and the STis because they both use the same dimensions for their ignition tables. It's just a spreadsheet that analyses logs that I import into it after importing the timing and kc tables from the map I'm working with.
