Looking for new cars I see less and less manuals. I have had manual cars for 12 years now and like it. I have no real need for a performance car but that's what I like. 1. I like being able to use the clutch and disengage the motor. Is there a performance advantage for this? 2. I don't like the floaty feeling of an automatic when you take your foot off the accel. Does an "autotronic" let you use engine braking when in a "manual" mode? Is there a performance advantage for engine braking? 3. I hear that F1 and other classes of race cars are all paddle shifters now. Are manual transmissions obsolete? Your thoughts?
Its becoming less and less of an option because I think majority of the people don't know how to operate a standard transmission anymore. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the chances of your vehicle getting stolen are remarkably lower. I've always enjoyed manual trans because I feel more in control of the car. I get way to distracted with an auto transmission with other things that I could be doing. Although manual gives me the urge to be more deviant, and has gotten me into trouble over the years because of having a lead foot. I honestly haven't driven a whole bunch of auto's with "paddle shifters". I did get a rental that had them and was a little perplexed. I hope they still keep them around for the one percenter crowd, and the enthusiasts. I will be a sad panda if they take that away.
Time to move to a warmer climate, and just ride two wheels year round. Still many manuals in that market.
There are several different types of "autotronic" transmissions and they are not all equal in every application. Also, just because an auto transmission has "flappy paddle shifters" doesn't mean it is good for racing either. A normal automatic transmission has some form of fluid filled torque converter that usually eats up some of your power and is generally not great for spirited driving (except if it is designed for drag racing in which case sometimes the fastest drag cars use an auto). The computer generally decides when to shift and most of them feel lazy and sluggish. Some manufacturers add "manual" gear selection to this which basically just overrides the computer and you can tell it to shift up or down but they are still usually slow to shift and don't end up feeling very fun to drive. The paddle shifted transmission in F1 cars and other high performance cars is more of a semi-automatic sequential transmission. Meaning it is basically a manual gearbox but the computer controls the clutch (either single clutch or dual clutch depending on how fast they want it to shift). These can shift very very fast and do not have the same power loss associated with them as the mushy torque converter. These kind of "auto" transmissions are great for racing and are kind of just an improvement on a manual transmission IMO because it doesn't make you feel disconnected from the car like a slushbox automatic transmission does. To answer your questions though, I don't think manual transmissions are obsolete because they are much better than slushbox autos but I think they might become extinct when semi-auto sequential transmissions become more and more affordable. From a performance standpoint you will pretty much always be faster in an F1 style gearbox than a dogleg manual, but most of us still prefer to row our own gears for many many reasons!
Aha! Thanks for the info. 1. Does a semi-auto let you do engine braking? 2. Does a semi-auto do automatic rev matching on downshift? 3. Is there a car less than 40k with this type of semi-auto, or are they mostly still in the slushbox category? (Sorry I know there are probably a lot of varieties, for the ones I've tried the lag does take the fun out.)
1.) It does engine braking because it is a manual that is mechanically shifted by solenoids and computers. It is still functionally a manual transmission. You can't coast because you can't just put it in neutral. So yeah, it engine brakes whenever you are off throttle. 2.) Yes. Typically. 3.) The only car I can think of right now that does auto rev-matching is the 370z. You aren't getting into a fully auto sequential manual for under 40k in a new car. I believe the e46 M3 had a flappy sequential box. You could probably find one of those used for under 40k without issue.
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes - VW calls it DSG in their GTI, R32, etc, the mitsubishi EVO has one called SST, audi, porsche, bmw, etc also all have a version in several of their cars.
Nice point Fuzz! I never thought of how having a manual forces me to pay more attention to driving, but it totally does! I don't think I was aloof/ distracted in my last automatic car, but it was easier to be now that I think about it.
Haha I won't argue with you there! But I test drove one a while ago and it shifted lightning quick...something like 8 milliseconds IIRC!
Yeah, the other thing that'll be lightning fast about it is how quickly it stops working or catches fire.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'd never drive a VW. But I would for sure 110% avoid one with an electronic transmission.
Thanks for posting...this was the exact info that I was going to share, so you saved me some typing! I've driven manuals, autos, and automated manuals (EVO, merc AMG's,) on the track and the automated manuals are actually very fun. They shift much faster and when controlled by a good computer, they hold gears and downshift very well. It takes the shifting aspect out your hands (and feet!) and allows the driver to focus more on driving.
OP one downside to most automated dual clutch transmissions is how expensive they are to maintain. They shift really fast and smooth but most of the time that comes at the expense of clutch life. Also like readymix hinted at, when you add electronics to the process it complicates things and generally doesn't hold up when the cars start to age. If driven properly and with some mechanical empathy a fully manual transmission will last the longest.
Does the VW complaint apply to Audi? A friend had an Audi that ate $600 coil packs on a regular basis until he traded for a Lexus IS250 AWD, which, I like btw, but not sure about transmission options.
Lots of cars have auto rev matching on downshifitng...even my 3.6R does. Unless you talking about auto rev matching in a manual transmission. I know the 370z does as you mentioned, and I think the new corvette does too. Not sure of the others.
Audi = VAG = VW All garbage Also, I believe the only dual clutch Lexus is the ISF. Even the LFA has a single clutch semi-auto sequential.
Yeah, I was speaking more towards the auto rev-match on downshift. Any sequential transmission will do it because you don't have a manually operated clutch to do it yourself but will require it for downshifting. An SMG has to have downshift rev-matching to operate. I mentioned the 370z because if rev-matching is the issue and you are looking for an SMG transmission vehicle to avoid dealing with it, the 370z would be an option but still maintain the ability to manually select gears.
They are great if you are a male that just wants to wear girl pants and hang out with stupid stance-tards. If you're not sure if that scene is for you, go to the MN Cars and Coffee event sometime. There are usually about a dozen VW golfs and jettas there slammed on some giant wheel/stretched butthole tire combination with some mincy hipster buttpipe posing about near it.
Agreed, I think auto rev-matching on a true manual is an awesome idea and wish it was more common. Ssome aftermarket ECU's have this capability...might even be able to with open source. Until then, heel-toeing it is!
I have a lexus isf and it's just a straight auto without the dual clutch stuff and when cross shopping dual clutch m3's I felt it shifted just as fast and the lexus is cheaper to maintain (no clutch replacements and supposedly no transmission fluid flushes ever though some guys are doing it just to be safe). It's a different feel.. shifts faster than I ever could with my manual wrx but it is nice to drive the wrx every once in while.
Triptronic auto transmissions lock the gear and will engine brake, but you'll likely destroy the transmission with the quickness doing this. coil pack eating is common, I replaced one every 3 months like clock work. Stay away from auto anything vw/audi that is pre 2007 unless it's 4 speed or 4motion/hadlex If it's terribly difficult to find a manual I'm sure you could speak to the dealer or go online and build your own options for the(new) car. You'll pay more but you'll be happy.
