Crank Pulley Issue

Discussion in 'Modifications And Maintenance' started by silver03, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    The car is a 95 Legacy LS sedan, 2.2L 4eat with no modifications. The issue is the crank pulley is backing out. The timing belt was done about 3 months ago (not by me) so I am unsure whether it was ever torqued to spec or not. As you can see by the pics, part of the crank bolt is chewed beyond the threads. I also think it is slightly warped at this point. Additionally, you can also see by the other pic the crank pulley itself is somewhat chewed up from it spinning loosely for some time. I threaded the bolt back into the crank and it went in with no issue, seemed just a little "loose", but not excessively so. Key on crank is solid and complete.
    So...
    A. Replace pulley
    B. Replace bolt (loctite?)
    C. Put a magnetic tip in to the crank threads and see if part of chewed bolt is in there
    D. What else? What could have caused this? IMG_1114.JPG IMG_1115.JPG

    E. Anyone have bolt and crank pulley for this laying around?
     

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  2. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    If its a car you plan to keep for awhile I'd do both to be safe. I had this happen to me. I replaced timing belt an did not torque the pulley and had it back out on me. Had to replace the pulley, the bolt, and the key.
     
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  3. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    I'd probably try to replace that pulley, but it'd probably work fine without (use a flapper wheel on a dremel to clean up any burrs).


    That's a very high-strength bolt, and it's threading into the crank (forged steel...), you're not going to be able to strip it out by hand. Apply loctite, wedge something in the flywheel/flexplate through the torque converter access hole, and crank that bolt down TIGHT. You won't have an issue again.
     
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  4. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Replaced crank with used, but undamaged, same for crank bolt. Both bolts have that end to it which must be a part of the machining process. Used some blue loctite, torqued it to 140 ft lbs and let it sit for a day. Flipped the key and it just purrs. Took it around the block...still purring. Thank you for all the helpful advice.
     
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  5. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    Purring is good.
     
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  6. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    no matter who you are!
     
  7. Benjamin Sorenson
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    Benjamin Sorenson New Member

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    The end of Subaru Crank bolts all look like that. It's from the casting phase. The threads are ok right? And FYI Absolutely no Loktight.

    Sorenson Automotive, Inc
    Subaru Specialty Services
    www.sorensonautomotive.com
     
  8. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Threads were good. Next time I'll skip the Loctite. I did only use the blue and I did not use a lot of it. But now...same car has benn throwing a throttle position sensor code for some time. Crappy gas mileage to go along with it. Where to start with that? How about anyone weighing in on this? Thank you -Rick
     
  9. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    How do you replace the key? Crank pulley recently backed out again and is fairly chewed up in the center again. Thank you
     
  10. joebush44
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    joebush44 Well-Known Member

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    New OEM woodruff key (PN: 804505060) is only a couple of bucks. It's kind of press fit into the crank snout. You can gently tap it into place. Crappy part is, you'll have to remove the timing sprocket on the crank since that rides on the woodruff key too.
     
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  11. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    As Joe said you will need to basically redo the timing belt service. Key is tight fit for sure but can gently be tapped in with a piece of brass and a hammer.
     
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  12. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    I removed the timing cover and dirt and oil aside, this is what I saw. Additionally, when I threaded the crank pulley bolt in as far as it would go (without the pulley) there was play in the bolt up and down and side to side perhaps as much as 1/16". What now? IMG_1397.JPG
     
  13. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    ummmm motor swap? If I am seeing the picture correctly it looks like the keyway is also out of time with the keyway in the shaft. Even if it is not that amount of wear on the crank shaft is a ticking time bomb.
     
  14. joebush44
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    joebush44 Well-Known Member

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    Holy ****. It wore out the keyway notch on the crank (and the sprocket)? I'm not even sure how that happens...the woodruff key is much softer material than the crank and presumably, the sprocket as well. I don't think there's any fixing that aside from completely replacing the crank/shortblock. Looks like there must have been some pretty gnarly vibration that wore the threads out inside the crank if it has that much play when threaded all the way in. That's a bummer. :(
     
  15. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @joebush44 and @JasonoJordan. I thought it was toast but wanted confirmation before I make the call and wanted to be relatively certain there was no other safe and viable solution short of replacement.
     
  16. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    I vote tack weld the pulley on and go 'til she blows...
     
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  17. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    I do have my four-year-old granddaughter riding in the back of this. No blowing!
     
  18. joebush44
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    joebush44 Well-Known Member

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    It is a non-interference engine anyway right? Roll the dice!

    (disassembly would be difficult in the future lol)
     
  19. joebush44
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    joebush44 Well-Known Member

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    Would be difficult, but plausible...could try layering a weld and then shaping it into what would be a woodruff key...

    edit: still doesn't resolve the sloppy crank pulley bolt though
     
  20. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    There is alot of could situations. Not really any would situations haha. That said the 2.2 is bullet proof and normally the chasis go before the motors do in the cars these were employed in so finding a full replacement would not be difficult.
     
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  21. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Oak leaf salvage has a lower mileage 2.2 for $ 200. Hmmm
     
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  22. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    Done. full motor or short block? Either way pretty decent price for a running motor.
     
  23. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    Yuck, that's some carnage.


    Probably could be patched back together, but that looks like a considerable amount of damage to the crank, which is not really fixable (certainly not without removing it....at which point....).

    With how cheap 2.2s tend to be, I'd just grab a used one and move on (I just looked at Car-part, Oak leaf's says "running core", but there are several for about $500)
     
  24. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    Welding the pulley to the crank would eliminate the need for the bolt altogether. Half ass joking, but if it works and the car was old and "disposable" anyways, I'd give it a shot. What's there to lose? Other than the ability to do the timing again, unless you "customize" the timing cover plastics so you could still get them off.

    Very redneck, yes. But it'd be a fun story.

    Edit: just re-read your two posts and realized they're two different thoughts. So we're both on the same page, I believe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  25. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Cody, this car is old and disposable. The body is major hail damaged. I can get $175 for it if I get it to Upull in E. Bethel. Maybe time to cut my losses...
     
  26. MrBlue
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    MrBlue Member

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    Weld it!, Weld it!, Weld it!
    Pitch the bolt, line up the pully and burn that Bit@#onto the crank:thumbup:
     
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  27. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    We are looking at the welding option closely.
     
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  28. Shancaldazar
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    Shancaldazar Well-Known Member

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    I'm strangely intrigued by this welding option too....

    Also, might want to be careful, not sure how much heat the timing belt can take.
     
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  29. MrBlue
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    MrBlue Member

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    Wet some rags & weld away....
     
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  30. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    We are one step closer having gone to Upull and pulling a unmarred crank and center section of the timing belt cover. Cost so far $2 to get into Upull and $10.41 for the two parts brings our total to $12.41...more to come on this.
     
  31. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    $12.41, the start of the budget "build"!
     
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  32. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Crank pulley successfully welded on...but no spark. Motor cranks strong, but could not get spark at any one of the new plugs which also have new wires. What else could have gotten toasted with this crank pulley carnage? thank you.
     
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  33. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    I would venture to say it could be more related to when you welded the crank pully on. Did you have the battery on the car disconnected when you did it? What did you use for a ground when you welded it.
     
  34. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    I figured that would come up, as that definitely crossed my mind as well. Battery was disconnected and we grounded on the power steering pump (a bracket on the side of it). Not really sure what else a guy could do.
     
  35. Shancaldazar
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    Shancaldazar Well-Known Member

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    What was the process used to weld? MIG/Stick are fine as long as you aren't grounding to something that feeds directly into a computer, but High Frequency start on a TIG will almost certainly fry any computers attached to it regardless of whether the battery is connected or not. HF TIG will even give computers that are just nearby the welding issues (not permanent ones, but the EMF from HF TIG interferes with their operation)... beside the point here though.

    Given that it is a crank pulley (old and dirty) and in an awkward location, I'm going to assume it wasn't TIG.

    How is the crankshaft position sensor? Right location and right symptoms
     
  36. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    Crankshaft position sensor...right location and right symptoms? What do you mean by this?
     
  37. Shancaldazar
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    Shancaldazar Well-Known Member

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    It's immediately in the area that was being worked on and a bad crankshaft position sensor can cause a no spark condition in most vehicles.
     
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  38. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    I think if either of us had the funds for a proper TIG setup we wouldn't be trying to cobble this thing together. :bounce:

    It was a 110 mig.
     
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  39. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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    I'll grab a new CP sensor and see what happens. Thank you. -Rick
     
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  40. MrBlue
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    MrBlue Member

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    Probably should have mentioned to remove it when welding
     
  41. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Let me know if you want the title changed to "Crankshaft Position Sensor issue". :p

    Good luck buddy!
     
  42. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    Don't diagnose with the parts cannon.....they can be tested.

    Do you have fuel? Any DTCs? RPM signal while cranking?
     
  43. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the tach didn't move at all while cranking. I thought that was maybe odd?
     
  44. Chux
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    Chux Well-Known Member

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    Tach doesn't usually register at starter speeds, but a code reader should absolutely show rpms while cranking.
     
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  45. silver03
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    silver03 Well-Known Member

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