EJ22t Build questions

Hey, I am finaly getting back into the build mode. i have been doing some looking and i have a few questions.

first i found a set of 05 wrx heads. now IIRC after late 2003 they switched to a shimless bucket design for the valve springs. am i correct in this?

I am looking at the helix RNA valve train. I want to keep the shimless set up, does anyone know if the RNA set will require the older shim over bucket parts or are they compatible with all wrx heads?

since the heads will be coming seperate from the ecu, i am looking for a harness/ecu for my setup. i have heard that the 02/03 ecus are more responsive to tuning than the 04+ ones. is this true? i have also heard that the 03 ecus have all the same sensors as the 04+ so would it be in my best interest to secure a 03 wiring harness and ecu to use with the 05 wrx heads?

also could anyone help me figure out the basics to calculating compression? I am aiming for a 9:1 CR. however i have not seen anyone that makes 9:1 cr pistons. wiseco makes 8.5:1 which is pretty close i want to try and figure out what thikness headgasket i would need to raise the CR.

Thanks for any and all help

 

On that block, pistons protrude about .030. Theorhetically, the thin head gasket gives you a comp. ratio in the 8's, but runs a way too tight of a clearance. Look into what Wiseco's ratio would be with their pistons for the EJ22T/Phase I DOHC head combo would give. 9.0:1 is getting on the high side if you want to be aggressive.

 

hey Dynaper, i have my 02 ecu laying around the house somewhere. If you think you need it let me know. And i think you are correct on the buckets cause i ordered 04 sti ones and they were the shimless. I went with the Axis power valve train, and the shop the cut in the new valves in didnt have anything bad to say about them. Did you try CP pistons? thats what i went with and seemed to be very nice, but this is only my opinion. Hope this helps.

 

if you replace the pistons i will buy your old ones. oh, and i'm sure if you went to headwerks in bloomington they could help you figure out what needs to be done to get the build how you want it

 

ya i know 9:1 is getting kind of high, but i am not after a super high HP dyno queen. i want it to be streetable. so having the higher CR will help off boost, and should also help spool.

I need to figure out these clearances. the phase 1 DOHC heads, are those the 98 RS ones? or which heads are you speaking of? I was thinking about using WRX heads since they seems to flow pretty well, and alo allow me to use an AP.

I am not sure if an 02 will work. I have heard that in 03 they added more sensors to the car, and the 02 ecu might not be able to handle it all. I will have to find out more about this. I will look into the axis power valvetrain it sounds interesting. I will also have to look into CP pistons. thanks for the incite.

Sadly i do not have the stock ej22t pistons. i bought the block halves, not the whole short block, sorry i cant help you out. Does headwerks have a website? I will have to look into them

Thanks for all the input, please keep it comin'.

 

Yeah, I was reffering to the heads from the '98 RS, also the early 2.5 Legacy GT's. They flow pretty well, compared to the old 2.2 heads. If you want to run an AP, the WRX ones might be a better option. I was thinking in terms the 2.5 heads being cheaper, since your gonna need cutom pistons anyways. I thought Wiseco made pistons for that combo, but they are for the stroker.

 

You will also need tgv's (or deletes) and a wrx intake mani if you run wrx heads

 

One of the reasons i want to use the AP is becuase there is alot of local support, and it is also a very good system. I am aware that wiseco makes 2.2l pistons and i am probably going to end up going with them. I was kinda curious if anyone made anything at a 9:1 cr, since wiseco is close at 8.5:1.

you are correct i will need TGV deletes, a WRX intake manifold, wrx exhuast manifold (which i already have), wrx wiring harness, ecu, and lotsa other goodies.

 

I don't know about you but i'd diffinetly use a phase 1 doch 2.5L heads over the wrx heads. the wrx heads can't even compare to the DOCH 2.5L heads. heck, they flow right about the same as the SOCH 2.5L heads. If you haven't noticed fuji's head thread yet. you should take a look because it shows how they differ in ports. the doch 2.5L are pretty much identical to the JDM big ported heads.

 

I'll probably go with the SOHC heads my self, since you only need to buy two cams. The thing is, with the 8.5:1 pistons and updated heads, you are at about 7.3:1 comp ratio. Yay 30 psi, but zero bottom end. Thats why I'll probably get custom pistons down the road. I just need to get the damn thing running first:roll:



As far as EM goes, you shure you shouldn't just go standalone? Its a little more $$, but worth it in the end. A standalone with a wideband and EGT sensor is a very powerful combo. The basic Link wire-in is about a grand. My Link Plus G2 all said and done was about $1800. Not cheap I know, but the flexibility to run whatever block/head combo is nice. Plus tons of inputs/outputs to do whatever with.

Just my $.02

 

good question...cant answer it off hand...sorry

 

hmm... well as cool at 30psi sounds, its not what i am looking for in this build. i want some low end power, so that car isnt a PITA to drive at slow speeds. I am planning on having the heads ported to get some better flow, but the heads should be capable of hitting my desired power levels even without porting.

I am kinda curious now, if i got some NA style pistons like 10:1 cr or something, those should raise the CR with the new heads to ~9:1 right? it just seems to be a bear market for 2.2l pistons. so far it doesnt look like Mahle, CP, or JE make pistons for the 2.2l.

This car will still be a daily driver for me, so i dont want to have the issues associated with standalone like cold starts and other such worries, also they seem to be much harder to get tuned. ie. requiring flying someone in to tune.

 

I haven't seen anyone who makes nice NA subie pistons. Factory NA pistons don't use hte same mnfg process as the turbo pistons, so I personally would not run them. For the compression ratio you want, the only option I can see is custom.

Just wait untill we see how my old heads work with the delta cams. I haven't seen anyone really test what these old heads can do with the delta cams and a good sized turbo. I'm guessing this motor wil be high in torque and fall off between 5.5-6krpm due to the lack in top end flow. A couple guys saw 20hp running these cams with a TBE, MBC and WRX TMIC set at about 12psi on their Tlegs. I'm gonna keep my old NA 2.2 heads when I pull that motor to saw apart and check out where and how much material I can remove. The only thing is you can't get bigger valves. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrg. THe joys of custom ****e.



Tuning is an iterative process. A pro tuner cannot give a car a great tune in a few dyno pulls. Its really hard to tune for day to day stuff without spending a week with a car. A standalone lets you putz with it and get every nuance worked out, if you have the will and the patience to really learn how it operates. Then you don't need people to come in and change your tune if you modify something. You always need dyno time to tune for maximum power, but things like idle, cold start, and fuel economy have to be tuned on the fly. I guess it all depends on how involved you want to be in the process.

 

let me know how those cams work.

I just started browsing around on axos powers website, and it seems they have alot of goodies for the 2.2l. they can get custom pistons fro the 2.2l (w00t!) they have complete valvetrains for 8-8.5k redlines (stg 2 is 9k). they can get JUN cams, bigger valves, arp studs, cometic gaskets, ect... ect... i just sent them an enal asking a bunch of questions. I will see what i hear back from them. It also looks like they offer head porting which should bring wrx heads up to 260cfm flow.

 

Word.


I didn't realize you wanted to go that far with the motor. Are you doing anything about the rods?

 

yes i am planning on building the whole thing, but so finding info on what i want is going slow. i am lookin at eagle rods, but i also know that pauter and i think crower make rods for the ej22 also. The head works is also in the plans, but that seems to be more expensive than i wsa thinking. so i need to do some more research and see if i canget some stuff cheaper elsewhere.

anyone know if the helix RNA valveline (264 cams, and springs retainers) are shim underbucket design?

i need to find out if an 03 wrx wiring harness and ecu will work with the 05 wrx heads? does anyone have any info on this?

 

For your daily driver, soending the bux on the heads isn't really that neccessary. Get a nice bottom end and you can always change heads. Being able to accomodate change is the key.

Eagles are a bargin, and to not get a set if you are that far into the motor is foolish. Mr. Blackwell would probably balance it all for under $100 to.

 

I am thinking that since i am gonna have the heads out anyway i might as well put some time/money into them. It will just mean i wont have to do it later.

as for the helix kit, you keep the stock buckets and just replace the springs/retainers? if so thats cool.

 

He's up here in Duluth. Its who all the machine shops go to up here. He does it out of his garage. He did my bottom end with the clutch/flywheel for $75. He said the crank was pretty much perfect from the factory, which isn't uncommon for japanese 4 bangers. My wiseco's were all within .5 grams already, so all he had to mess with was the rods and flywheel/pressure plate. All my machine work was pretty cheap as well. Gotta love the economy up here.

Blackwell's Custom Balancing
218-722-2198

 

:writes down number:

 

I think I previously mentioned Midwest Engine Rebuilders in a different thread. Super nice guys, and VERY resonable. I got my block bored .020 over, tanked, and they checked the deck. On the heads, they rebuilt them with the exhaust valves, stem seals and retainers I supplied. They polished my crank, and got me my main and rod bearings (Clevite). All for about $400. I think they are cheap for a three-angle valve job as well, but I didn't go that far.

 

You can actually have the WRX heads ported to match the BIG PORT head ports. All we need to do, is have the CNC shop trace out a BIG PORT head, then have the WRX head ported to match. It really isn't that hard.

If you USE the '02+ WRX harness+ECU, it'll be a better daily driver because you have the AP to use to tune for big mods but still have the drivability due to the LOTS of parameters of part throttle stuff that the STOCK ECU has.

My build I'm kind of going old skool parts with NEW SKOOL technology.
SO I'm doing some custom intake manifold with WRX sensors, harness+ECU. The BACKBONE is oldskool parts, but you know, with new-age sensors and stuff.

IF I could get a set of WRX heads, I'd have them PORTED to match the BIG PORT heads, and run it with a '02 WRX harness with my CABLE THROTTLE and Cobb AP. BTW, this would be with ONE of my EJ22T's....hahha

 

I'd still rather have something I can play with. A few dyno pulls can only give you so much. There are a number of things that need seat time in the car to really take car of, like accel enrichment, idle, fine tuning cold start and so on. If I was using a wrx harness and what not, I'd either get a G3 or a Hyrdra. That is or course, imho.

 

So by using a LGT/STi thickness headgasket and wiseco 8.5:1 CR pistons it should ocme out to be ~8.5:1 cr?

 

so why not get an 03 engine and install it and run the AP??? or do what mike did,,, sti swap!!! just a thought...

 

I was talking to dan about the head gasket idea a few days ago. and he had some piston-to-valve clearance numbers that really scared me. with the stock EJ22t headgasket thickness and wiseco pistons, the clearance is pretty slim, but with a thinner one, you go down to virtually nothing

 

On the EJ22T, the pistons protrude by .020-.030. Phase 2 engines do not protrude. With the thin head gasket, the pistons may contact the head, or be extremely close, out of reccommended spec. I wouldn't risk it myself.

 

^ so thats with the wisecos and ej22t head gasket?

 

The wiseco's have 7-8cc less dish than factory ej22t pistons so it is plausible.