We will be fabricating and marketing these pieces. We need a test vehicle to fabricate the first piece. All materials will be free, thus the up pipe and dump tube are free! Install cost will be charged at our normal rate of $120. You must provide your own TiAL waste gate or you may buy one from us for just $209.99 shipped. Serious inquiries only, you must be able to leave your car for 2-3 days as we not only need to fabricate the piece we also need to design and make a jig for future pieces. Thanks! Chris Carey 763-545-3800
I'd take you up on it but since I'm going rotated next year though this would be a losing investment for me. Bump for you though.
considering then you are using the piping to make yourself a jig... doing it for free if the person supplies or buys the WG would be far cheaper for you then buying a car to make it on... ha ha and a better deal all around... what if they turn around and say ok material may be free but you charge me labor.. fine when you are finished I will charge you XXXXX for rental of my car
Normally when you have a "test" car the finished product gets installed for free...as the person who's car your testing it on, loses their car for a few days. Bump for the attention getter though.
Lol I figured since a similar product goes for $350 that that might be enough for someone to let us borrow it for a few days
good responses guys, i agree, you should not be charging a test vehical that you need for the install. that person is going to be out of a car for a few days. and why would they need the Tial wastegate to be shipped to them when the car is going to be at your shop..
Wow I have never seen so many people get upset about an offering for a free product lol. If you don't want to take advantage of this ok, but if someone was considering buying a product like this why not let us use your car for a day or two and save $350? lol Chris
GrimmSpeed just sent out 10 sets of pheno spacers to testers from nasioc, free of charge and didnt charge the tester to ship them....kind of what you are doing. in order for you to make these and start selling them to make a profit you have to pay for research and development, its not costing you labor for you to install this, its something you would need to install no matter what.
Well, the car will need a retune. The wg duty cycle will not be the same as a iwg turbo. You will also need to weld or mechanically close the flapper door. Are those services also included?? I would really hate for someone that doesn't know any better get the free uppipe and also blow up a motor because it wasn't properly setup. Will you also route the dump tube back into the downpipe if the customer doesn't want a open dump tube?? Russ
^^very good points. Charging someone for prototype work is some weak sawz. If you want to make parts for profit on these cars, BUY one. You are competing againt a couple guys who can throw an EWG on a factory up pipe in an afternoon, and will do it for beer.
Hey, mind if I borrow your house to install a new pool we're testing? I'll throw in the water, you pay for the installation cost and materials.
I didn't mean to start the hate train. BUT I do think it's poor buisness to test a new product development on someones car and then make them pay for the inconvience.... especially if something happens to the car when its done. Since you technically have no idea what will happen when it's done... since you mentioned nothing about tuning, or any of that.... it's just assumed everyone knows what they are getting and what you are doing. it would be more apropriet to say "we're t esting a new product, we would be giving you an up-pipe, and we'll throw in a wastegate to make up for your car-less couple of days" because honestly... I kinda feel like your giving people a jiffy lube deal.
I would consider this if I did not have to pay for your time and materials (the word experiment comes to mind) and I could get a good wastegate, at cost, from you. Also the time that you had my car would have to be mid May.
The cost of R&D does not fall on the person that is loaning you a 20-30k dollar car. We're not trying to get heated here, we're just pointing out the fact that if you are going to keep someone's car for a few days so you can test a product that you intend to sell and make money off of, you don't charge them for labor. Well, you can try, but what idiot is going to pay you money to keep their car for a few days so that you can produce an income generating product. Like piddster said, there are a couple guys in the area that will make an EWG uppipe for the cost of beer and dinner. And I'm sure if they were in it for money, they'd do the installation for free, throw in the pipe for free, and likely just have you provide them with the wastegate that you intend to run. That's how it's done man. You pass on the cost of R&D to the consumer when you sell the product, not when you use their car as a test car.
I definitely see where you guys are coming from and my original thought was to complete the service for free (except for the waste gate). However, I ask that you look at it from our perspective. We are a new business and frankly don't have the money for R&D at this point. Perhaps I should have rephrased the title of this thread to "If you are looking for an EWG setup check this out" rather than the current title. You guys are correct they would be leaving their car here for a day or two, but they get a $350 product for the inconvenience. As far as the pool analogy, I might consider paying you to install a pool if all of the materials were free. Anyways, sorry I pissed you guys off lol. We're just trying to create a version of a product that we can market for lower than they currently go for, ultimately helping the Subaru community while at the same time keeping our business going.
no, they get a prototype, no tune, no welded wastegate and most importantly THEY ARE PAYING YOU FOR A COST THAT YOU WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE TO ABSORB IF YOU DID THE RIGHT THING AND USED YOUR OWN CAR. Who knows what you're going to do with it before even tuning it, which is never discussed by you guys. you're nickel and diming someone whose going to be risking their car and not even have it available for several days. Whatever, I guess you've proven that $150 means more than your reputation. youre jsut trying to have your cake and eat it too. not a risk i'd take.
I guess it was just assumed that the car would be re-tuned and the old flapper welded. That is the only way we can test it correct? Here's my question: If you buy a product like this from Ultimate Racing, don't you have to get it re-tuned and have the wastegate welded shut as well? We are not trying to nickel and dime anyone, we will not let someone's car get ruined from our "prototype", and we have done a ton of exhaust fabrication in the past. Again, we are giving our fabrication time away for FREE, and the materials to make this "prototype" for FREE. Why is that such a bad thing? As far as the reputation of our business goes, you must not know who we are and what we are about. Look at our product pricing, do you think we make any money on that? No. Do you think we are living the high likfe on our $60.hour labor rate? Hell no. We make enough to stay alive. We are here to help change the community for the better by offering lower prices, faster shipping, and better customer service. Things that should have been commonplace in this industry! If this up-pipe ever happens (which it may not based on the fact that we can't afford a $25k car for testing purposes) it would have been priced just above our cost and WAY below Ultimate Racing. Why? Because we don't feel that vendors should be able to charge that much for such a product. So in essence, this thread is asking you to help us help your community. If you let us make you this FREE up-pipe we promise to lower the price on this product for the whole community. Reading through this thread it somehow makes us look like all we care about is money, and I just want to state that that is simply not the case. I'm sorry if this came off the wrong way, I'm just a little upset that an offer for a free product got this out of hand. If you want to know what we are really about check out www.mitsustyle.com, www.mnsportcompacts.net, www.dsmtuners.com, www.nasioc.com, or www.evolutionm.net. On any of those forums you will find reviews about our products and services, and ultimately who we really are as people. Chris Carey
Because you are charging an install fee on this "free" product -- an install that you would have to do to design/build/test your new product if you owned your own car. Charging for the actual wastegate is fine, imho. It's the install fee that's bothering everyone.
Alright well maybe we can do it this way, if someone can leave their car for a few days we can do the install portion after hours for free. I just have to figure out a way to fit this in without delaying other projects during our workday. Does that make sense? Chris
Makes sense to me. I figured all of this R&D/build/install would happen during a time when you wouldn't be swamped with customer work (ie, after hours/weekend/whenever). Good luck and let us know how the pipe turns out. If I wasn't working on another project at the moment (and had an extra 200 bones laying around for an EWG), I'd totally be down for this.
if you have to take the up-pipe off several times to make adjustments, will you charge an install fee each time you put it back on? j/k, this thread is funny
So then you will not be driving the car, correct?? Since it would be our responsibilty to have it tuned after it is installed. Russ
There in lies our problem with tuning, we don't have an AWD dyno so it will have to be street tuned. We can obviously help with this though if desired.
Not to bash you anyomre....but shouldn't this have been thought of before the fact that someone loans you their car? I would think that the customer is going to need a tune for the parts/service you are providing. Are you going to street tune the car, or have it tuned for them as part of the service???
Alright, well perhaps I am missing something here but when you talk about retuning are you referring to simply setting the boost to the proper level? That is something we can definitely do on the street... Chris
re-tuning in my mind would require setting the wastegate duty cycles like WRX1 had mentioned. also adjusting for any differences in the stock map which may be affected by the EWG/upipe setup. IE if you get boost sooner, make sure you have re-tuned it so there is fuel there and it doesn go BOOM!
It's not so much the fact of boost tuning, but tuning for an external waste gate setup. More than likely you'd want to go with a different boost control solenoid as well as the Tial wastegate...but that's up to the person to decide. The wastegate duty table in the map would have to be completely changed, and that's gonna take some time to play with, to have the car boost the same way it did (or sooner as the EWG should provide).
Well perhaps we tried to step into a realm we aren't yet ready to take on lol. We are obviously still learning the intricacies of these cars, and I thank you guys for your input. Chris
Sorry for being a little harsh at first. It was late... I understand you guys are trying to expand, but yet stay within reach of most people. Tough road to follow, but a good one nonetheless. I'm just curious as to why you want to develope an externally gated uppipe for an internally gated subaru. Most people that go external are running a turbo with a completely different flange, and in T3, T04, or in my case, T25. If you came up with a reasonably priced rotated pipe set, I think you would have much better luck. Turbo XS is coming out with a rotated mount kit that uses the factory uppipe with an adapter piece, along with their downpipe. There's only a couple companies that make a rotated kit for subies, and they are pricey. Come up with a pipeset that gives people options as to what they want to run turbo wise and you may be golden. Just my sober $.02
