so with life and family, etc., ect., there's a very good chance that i'll be trading in my wrx for a bigger car. there are many that i'm looking at right now and subaru outback is one of them. my concern with outback would be the same build quality that i have with my wrx. i always considered a wrx to be a fairly cheap car (econobox impreza based) with a fun motor, but i have to say there are a few things that disappoint: since new the car had a rattle in a dash, i think it got proportionally worse when i moved to MN and especially during the winter. there's a permanent shim that i installed in the dash to keep it from rattling, few trips to the dealer have resolved absolutely nothing. the power windows are a disgrace. on a good day they move at moderate speed, on some day i may as well not open any windows because it takes so long -- again, when i went to the dealer they laughed and said "they all do that..." the paint seems to be the thinnest out of any car that i've owned. if you sneeze hard on it it'll mark or scuff my biggest concern would probably be the power windows and the paint, as this is something that obviously takes a lot of abuse and the crappy paint no doubt will lead to rusting problems in the future, as i keep cars around for a while. is the outback made in the same plant/shares same components as the impreza line? does anyone have a 2013+ outback/legacy that can comment on the build quality?
Not really sure about the rattles on the outback but I never noticed anything wrong with the power windows in my 07 wrx. The paint thing is a real problem and as far as I know the new subarus aren't any better. If you want it to last lots of people invest in clear bras but even that doesnt protect the whole car.
My wife's '12 Outback has always felt more "solid" than my WRX. It's been a really good car for us, and it doesn't have any of the WRX's rattles. I'm sure user experience's vary, but I'm a fan of the Outback.
What other cars are you looking at? I think the perceived better build quality of the legacy/outback has more to do with those cars typically staying stock compared to the impreza line. Stiff suspension, exhaust, loud audio, etc... tend to help accelerate the process of those clips and joints loosening up, ya know? The interior materials are different on the surface, but it's the same/similar dash molds, clips, lack of weatherstripping, etc... underneath the leather. I've seen no significant difference in paint quality between models.
the other cars i'm considering would be CPO'ed 2012-2013 E350 4M, E350 diesel, Volvo XC70 T6, ML350/diesel (although i really don't want an SUV). just realizing that i need a full size sedan, wagon would be a bonus for doing outdoor activities, etc. all the cars on the above list i'll go out on the limb and will say that the build quality/materials will probably surpass anything on the outback, never mind blow my wrx out of the water -- but it's at the cost of potential reliability and overall maintenance costs. although i've been trolling volvo forums and the xc70 guys are ham about their cars and there's plenty that are running reliably and they all claim that the paint on the volvos is the greatest thing ever. btw, my wrx is completely stock, the windows issue was there since the day 1, the rattling dash started somewhere about a year into it.
To be honest, if those things you list are the magnitude of things that annoy you, the Outback is probably not going to be dramatically better.
My fiance has a 11 Outback and I have a 12 Legacy 3.6R limited. The build quality on both cars is far superior to my 08 STI that I recently sold. I think the 10+ Outbacks/Legacy's are the first Subaru's that I think actually have respectable build quality. My father has a 15 Outback, and I'd say his is even nicer. The only odd thing with my Dad's Outback was that the front wheel bearings went out (at less than 5k I believe). The dealer was in disbelief and had to special order the replacement parts, so I think it was truly a one-off situation. That's what warranty's are for. I will say the 13+ Legacy/Outback has a much tighter feeling when driving the car, due to the firmed-up suspension. I had a 13 Legacy rental car once and I was quite surprised how much better it was. My dad's 15 is the same/similar. However, there are plenty of other cars out there with far superior build quality when compared to Subaru. The german cars you mentioned are all decent, but if it was me, it would definitely be a CPO'ed one (as you mentioned). Another "upscale" route you might consider, and that may be more reliable, are cars in the Acura/Infiniti/Lexus lineups. And finally, speaking from my own personal buyer's remorse, get yourself a wagon/small SUV. Even though I can use my finance's Outback, I still wish my 3.6R was an Outback or Forester instead of a Legacy.
What's your budget? Because it's a lot cheaper to fix things on a Subaru than all those cars you listed. Build quality on a Mercedes is **** and same with Volvo. Every manufacture has it's flaws, some cost more to fix.
that's a pretty bold statement to make - do you know that for a fact for specific models/years or are you just quoting something you've read on the internet? i do agree with your last statement that proportionally that if something goes wrong it'll be more expensive to fix on a luxo car than on any subaru. I'd definitely only be looking at the outback, as it would be a good utility vehicle and would complement the one sedan that we already have. for euro options it would definitely be a CPO'ed car and if available will add another 2 years on top of that. with the Jap companies you're suggesting there isn't a wagon option, there may be some used wagon TLs but those are rarer and actually don't have that much back seat space, and i'm trying to stay away from an SUV. if we go the SUV route i'd really lean on the germans simply because they all have diesel options, Q5, Tauerag, X3, ML. i know there's a grand cheroke diesel but the motor i believe is italian and actually doesn't quote good mpg at all. i had a 2014 outback rental and i remember it did amazing on highway driving, close to 30mpg (beats the crap out of of 21 that i continually get with my wrx) but i don't remember any other specifics about it -- which is probably good that nothing bad stood out. but, it's different driving something for a few days vs. seeing how it weathers in the first 2 years. how is your paint holding up on the outback?
Ours has been fine. The car has been garage kept it's whole life, and I haven't noticed any issues with it.
Well, besides the bumps and scratches (that my fiance blames on tight parking spaces at her old apt), pretty well! No rust whatsoever, but it is a 2011, so it isn't too old yet. @idget detailed it about a year ago, and the paint wasn't terrible as I recall, except for a few trouble spots (bird doo doo). And yea, the TL's aren't that big. I did look at them briefly, even a wagon, but they aren't that big either. I think the Outback's/Forester drive a hard bargain and are tough to beat: cost effective, reliable, AWD, decent MPG's, lots of room, etc. Only downfall is that you can't tow much with them, unless you get an Outback/Legacy 3.6R, or Tribeca. If you end up going the Outback/Forester route, I'd suggest getting a 6 speed manual to keep it "fun" to drive, and perhaps a slight drop for better handling...unless you want the ground clearance for off-roading. I did have a Mercedes GLK (2013+ I think) as a rental car once, and I was very impressed. The interior quality and features (I believe it was a base model), were excellent. The start-stop feature worked flawlessly. Cargo space looked to be decent. And that 302 HP V6 friggin RIPPED! That thing hauled arse. So even though it won't be the best handling thing in the world, at least you can acquire plenty of speeding tickets I think I also averaged about 27 mpg...considering it has 302 hp and I wasn't afraid to use it, 27 mpg is pretty good. Surprisingly, new ones start at $38k, which is less than the C class.
535i touring (wagon) would be a nice option. Might be hard to find but they are reasonably priced and the motor/transmission is very good. CPO ideally but if you do your own work maintenance isn't bad.
I've looked, but I believe they stopped making wagons. The "newest" I'm seeing are '09-'10 which you can't get CPO on most likely, or if you do it'll only be a 12 month deal. i keep my eyes open on a e class wagon but those have a 5-10K premium over the same sedan configuration lol, if i was independently wealthy i'd be all over that AMG wagon, especially now that they come in 4matic, but it's about 3-4x my budget.
most likely wouldn't go for the forester, not that the outback is a pretty car but to me it looks much better than the forester and probably has more room in the trunk. you mention the 6 speed manual, i know pre 2014 outbacks could have been had with a manual (although i don't know if you could have a highly optioned one in that config), but i'm pretty sure all 2014+ are only auto, i think that's how they're able to get past 30mpg. i didn't know the glk could get that mileage, but that's great. i think they have at least a 7speed if not 8speed autobox so i'm sure that helps. i'd have to lug our baby chair and try to fit it into GLK, i looked at x3 and these actually seemed surprisingly roomy in the back, especially the 2015 models.
My fiancee has an older model X3 and it is awesome. I assume the new ones are too. Does not drive like a typical SUV.
The paint condition was good. The quality? Not so much. To be fair that can be said if pretty much all non-premium brand paint. With Subaru you're getting a solid awd system for cheap and solid safety ratings. Everything else is middle of the road or a compromise. If OP is unhappy with the build quality of a new, stock wrx, i doubt there's any Subaru that will live up to his expectations. Def try something like a x1, x3, rx, ct hybrid, etc... If it were me, I'd hold out for a lease return cpo Macan.
The 2015+ Outbacks are phenomenal vehicles. Build quality is top notch, premiums materials, upgraded technology, and lots of nice updates to make them more reliable and cheaper to own. 2014 and older are still very solid vehicles but they are missing a few modern updates that may annoy you. The Outback and Legacy are made in Indiana where the rest of Subaru's are made in Japan. I would highly suggest investing in some type of paint protection if you were to get a new Subaru. They no longer us lead base paint so it is a bit softer. Rust proofing and a 3m clear shield would keep the car looking great for a long time! Mike
this is a stupid question but you can't wrap the whole car in 3M, it's just the front portions that get covered? because that's actually not my concern, normal chips happen on any cars, i'm talking about literally paint scratching from my fingers around the door handles, or if i lay something on the roof while taking my kid out of the car it literally mars it. also, rust proofing would be for underneath i'm assuming? what do these typically run? please feel free to PM me if it's inappropriate to post here.
yeah, i went and sat in a 2016 and it was impressively roomy, and so was 3 series wagon for that matter, it's almost like a full size sedan, the cars have definitely grown since the last generation. i really would like a diesel one but those are new for 15/16 so it'll be a year or so before there are lease returned cpos showing up, but damn, a 320d awd wagon gets 40+ mpgs -- crazy.
Rust proofing is a scam. You can get the whole car wrapped in clear wrap but expect at least $2-5k depending on car and type of film. Also, removal/cleanup is a pain and any large impacts will still damage the paint underneath... then when you go to lift the wrap, you'll probably end up pulling the paint up with it (this is coming from someone who has detailed a dozen or so cars after the owner removed their clear bra). So depending on what you get, you might be better off budgeting for a respray later on. Also, these are depreciating HARD
Boooo hisssssss! haha They are cheap as hell now because those GT cars are an abortion made for the Chinese market. If you want a hatch in a car with 4 doors the Gran Coupe looks way better and is just as practical.
Oh they're all ugly. But hard to not consider when you can get a 30k mile 3 year old CPO car for less than half price. Speaking of which, how much was your 335 again? Gonna start shopping in the next month or two.
I suppose you could wrap the entire car, or at least cover a specific area such as the inside of the door handles. We outsource our work to a shop down the road but I'm sure any shop could cut their own stuff to cover just about anything you want. Rust proofing is a great idea despite what anyone says. We spray a Auto Armor in our shop and it's great. A tar like coating is sprayed on the bottom. From there all of the drainage spots through the doors, trunk, skirts, ect are covered in another chemical to protect against any salty water that will inevitably come through. When a car comes in for a trade in you can tell pretty quickly if it's been protected or not. Pricing on Outbacks will vary depending on the packages and options that you want. They can range from about 25k-37k. Mike
thanks for the expansive reply -- i'll definitely have to consider it, but no one in my family has ever gone through measures like that previously so it's really a strange though that on top of purchasing a car you'll have to have all this additional work done to it; if anything i'd believe more in rust proofing (also think it may apply to other cars then just subaru) than the paint, i wouldn't want to go through the effort and maintenance of a wrap. but, it still sucks that the cars exhibit paint quality and deterioration below other choices. yeah, we'd be for sure looking at 15+, at this point i don't know if it's worth paying a premium for a 16, if that would be the choice. budget would be 28-35K and as i mention before a lot of cars fall in to that category, not just an outback, all with their pros and cons. those are a little above my budget, unless it's a '11 and honestly at this point i'm valuing utility & gas mileage over performance. also, never had an american car and not sure if i have a good opinion of them.
The cheapest way to protect your car would be to have it plastidipped. They have a clear plastidip but its a matte finish but with enough coats on there not much will get through. Ill be plastidipping the bottom half of my doors just to protect my car in the winter even tho the body of the car has 222k on it. Just a thought.
My hood has a lot of rock chips in the paint so Im like lets see how the plastidip holds up. It has held up well, Ive just had to touch up a couple of the lighter hit spots cause a rock or something hit it and took it down to the paint. So I just put more on it and it looks decent. To get a good smooth coat Ive learned that you have to hold the can straight up and down or else it turns out rough.
