HiFi / Audio Geeks i gotta question

hi all,

i am looking into settign up a simple stereo in my living room, now that i have moved some stuff around and have some more room. right now i am think of a pair of floorstanding speakers, nothign too fancy. however i dont want mystery brand or anything like that. now to power those i just want a simple reciever or amp/preamp set up. i dont need a tuner or anythign special. it just has to have some RCA inputs for cd player.

i have been looking into a NAD 3020 for the source unit. now from what i have been reading on the net this only puts out around 20w x channel. i am not sre about he impedence but i think its 8ohms. however from reviews i have seen this is an amazing piece of equipment. does any one know anything regarding this? and then again what speakers should i pair with it if i get it?

thanks

 

also i found a NAD 3020 for ssale cheap with a distored channel, any idea how hard it would be to fix the bad channel?

 

that NAD looks like a decent piece of equipment. it seems that everybody that has one is pretty happy with it. i can try and find out what kind of ballpark youd be lookin in to get that channel fixed tomorrow. if its pretty cheap that might not be a bad deal. as far as the power goes, don't worry about the low wattage. watts is one of those specs that is easy to manipulate by manufacturers. its all about the power supply in the unit and how much sustained current it can dish out. amplifier construction also plays a part but there are many different configurations out that all claim to be superior. all of these designs, however, all have a thing in common. . . a massive power supply. having the ability to produce a ton of current on command is what allows an amp to sound life-like. when you get a loud musical passage the amp can continue to throw power at the speakers without losing its dynamics and range. an easy way to evidence this is to play a song with a deep detailed low end. play it on a cheap reciever at a low volume and it sounds fine. give it a little volume with the same reciever and the bass kind of dissapears or gets muddy and loses its punch. try this whole thing on a well made high current amp (like the NAD) and you get a different result. you can listen to your music at more of a live volume without losing the punch and the detail in the high end. <end rant>
im too lazy to reread what i just spit out, so go ahead and correct me if anything sounds silly. the moral is, don't go by wattage exclusively.
as far as the speaker choice, it really comes down to what you like the sound of. the best thing you can do is go ahead and pick out your source unit and get it set up where you plan to keep it. then pick out a few different speakers that are in your budget and try them at your house. speakers never sound the same way at a store as they do in your room. certain speakers do bring out certain characteristics in different music however. what do you listen to the most? lets say you really want to rock out. klipsch would suit you very well where a kef might not give you the impact you crave. regardless, the first step is to get an amp. i will try and remember to check what the repair to that amp might cost tomorrow.

-erik

p.s. sorry if that was all totally irrelevant to what you were looking for. i am an audio dork. i like audio gear almost as much as i like my car. almost.

 

thanks for the info erik. i think i will end up gettign the NAD 3020. i am going to ask some of my dads buddies about it first though. they should know the market for that unit. i have found 2 bad ones for sale, one with the bad right channel, and one with a bad power supply. or there are working ones. 1 for $100, and another for $46 the second 1 is on ebay so the price isnt solid.

 

nad makes good stuff.
a very solid choice.

 

i am going to be listening to alot of diffrent kinds of music, everything basically from metal - classical. exluding rap (errr....) so i want somethign has a good bass response but can still hit the highs. and most of all i want them to be LOUD! (of course they should sound good whiel they are loud too)

 

I agree with Erik, to a point. Power is quite a basic equation, actually, you can look at it in two forms: P=(I^2)*R or P=(V^2)/R. Being that the impedance (or resistance, the simpler form useful for this discussion) is constant given the same speaker, the power consists of current * voltage (simple algebra). It is here that amp manufacturers have their leeway. Historically speaking, when signal processing (ProLogic and the sort) became popular with the "Best Buy" brands (Sony, Kenwood, JVC, etc.) the components were not capable of high current as the heat would destroy the DSP chips as all of the processing was done after amplification. The solution was increasing the voltage. That way, the power rating stayed the same, but the receivers were reliable. It was for this reason (and maybe others?) that many of the high end companies (my experience is mostly with Harman Kardon) scoffed at the DSP receivers and didn't enter the market. This has changed with new high power process technologies and other work arounds such as one amp/channel. The single channel amp is really what most of the receivers are using today, that way, the processing is done before the amplification.

Anyway, I must digress as I have gone off on a long tangent. The bottom line comes down to how the manufacturer decides to make the "power", current or voltage. I do agree with Erik that the power supply is a vital part of the puzzle, but as far as true power making capabilities, the power supply is not rocket science. Where the power supply quality shines is in the sound. When I say sound, I am referring to the quality, not quantity. It is easy to supply a large amount of current, but it is not easy to do it without unwanted noise and harmonics. As with most things in life, a good supply will cost you a lot of money because of the components used, hence the varying prices of amps/receivers.

With regards to the topic at hand, a 20W receiver (from any brand) will have its limitations. A NAD amp is going to sound good, up to a point, then it will distort, clip, etc. just like any other 20W amp. The high current capabilities of a high end amp definitely controls a speaker better (we'll stay away from the electromagnetics involved), but they will not necessarily make it louder. Where I disagree with Erik is in the test he suggested; "...an easy way to evidence this is to play a song with a deep detailed low end. play it on a cheap reciever at a low volume and it sounds fine. give it a little volume with the same reciever and the bass kind of dissapears or gets muddy and loses its punch. try this whole thing on a well made high current amp (like the NAD) and you get a different result..." I agree, but it is misleading. It really depends on how loud you are referring to, within it's capabilities, yes, the NAD will sound better. However, compare it to a 100W amp and the results will be different. There are thousands of variables, but given a decent quality amp, push the NAD to a volume that is just below its limit and then turn on the 100W amp to the same volume and there will be negligible sound quality difference to an average consumer, but the 100W amp has more room with regards to volume. Note that I said there are many variables here so let's not nit-pick.

Well, all that said, it you are looking for "loud" in a big space, the NAD will not be the best choice. If you are in a bedroom or small apartment, that may be the right choice. I used to run a 35W/ch H/K receiver and loved it, until I moved into a house...

The speaker choice is even more cloudy, but my preference (although I am sure it is out of your $$ range) is Pinnacle Classic Gold Towers. I have had these speakers for ~6years and still love them everynight when I get home and turn on the music.

$0.02 (or maybe more like $29.99) from your friendly, local Electrical Engineer...

Christian

 

I know exactly what your sayin. however the room in which i am going to have the steroe isnt very large. so it wont take much sound to fill it. in the future when more sound is required, couldnt i hope the NAD 3020 up with another power amp to give me the power boost i need?
Price range: i wanna stay as cheap as i can. i am looking at picking up the 3020 for around 100 maybe less or more depending on shipping. so i am going to be limited in speakers.

 

yeah, sorry, i was being really general. of course if you want some serious volume you need power. but with the NAD just make sure the speakers you pick out are somewhat efficient and you should be just fine.

 

cool, erik did you ask about getting the distorted channel fixed.

 

Agreed, Erik.

 

i did ask about fixing the distortion. the dudes at the service center said to expect about $90 unless its just a loose wire or a capacitor or something.

 

thanks for asking

 

New Question?

I am currently using my dads old stereo set up. a Dyna tubed preamp, and a DynaKit power amp. i found some old speakers in teh basement, they are infinity Rf9s or is it rs9s. anyway they have some problems, ie, torn cone/ratteling.

i am looking at a pair of Dahlquist M905s on ebay. they arnt very expensive. has anyone heard of these before. or better yet has anyone heard them before? i may just end up buying them. any advice?

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dynapar

New Question?

I am currently using my dads old stereo set up. a Dyna tubed preamp, and a DynaKit power amp. i found some old speakers in teh basement, they are infinity Rf9s or is it rs9s. anyway they have some problems, ie, torn cone/ratteling.

i am looking at a pair of Dahlquist M905s on ebay. they arnt very expensive. has anyone heard of these before. or better yet has anyone heard them before? i may just end up buying them. any advice?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Never heard of Dahlquist, so I don't want to say good or bad, but did you lookinto putting in new drivers into the Infinity's. I like my difinitiveTechnologies, but if you put in proper drivers for the boxes you might just get away cheep, and still sound good.

 

right now the infinitys sound good but above a certain volume you can here the broken cone rattleing and stuff. plus they are my dads speakers. so i dont really want to mess with them. i have heard that the dahlqiust q 10s are good electostatic speakers but still no reviews on the m905s. also i have found a pair of Fluance foor standign speakers for like 50 plus s&h. any one hear of these before? the dahlquist are 140 + 60 s&h. if you wanna see the the dahlquist are on ebay, and the fluances are on audiogon.com