Let's chat about power tools

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by belalegosi, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. belalegosi
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    belalegosi Well-Known Member

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    I've finally decided it's time I get power tools after years of doing everything by hand :alien:
    Considering my garage is pretty cramped as it is, I've decided electric would be the way to go so that leads me to
    -Cordless
    -Corded

    I'm particularly interested in a good impact and drill for now.
    The impact should have enough umpf to easily take lug nuts off and possibly even work with rusty suspension bolts.

    Any input on which route to go and what brands to stick to would be appreciated. I'd like to pick a brand that I can expand with later on (if I go cordless).

    Paging @Shancaldazar
     
  2. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    I have Milwaukee at work and Makita at home. Both make a half inch impact that would more then cover what your looking to do. Both are equally priced. I like my Milwaukee set a bit more personally great power and battery life. Batteries charge decently quick. Either way its a spendy venture unless you don't mind taking your time and picking up used stuff. I have a 1/4" impact and the 1/2" drill. The 1/4" impact has a surprising amount of torque more then enough to take off lug nuts if they were properly torqued. Also I have Milwaukee's angle grinder. I was able to cut through a 3' long 3/8" thick steel beam lip on a single battery charge with the extended battery.
     
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  3. retreif
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    retreif Well-Known Member

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  4. pbedroske
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    pbedroske Well-Known Member

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    cpooutlets.com refurbished/reconditioned - look for sales or coupon codes. I got Milwaukee M18 Fuel brushless 1/2" hammer drill/driver 1/4" impact driver w/ 2 batteries and charger for $230. both tools are working great. One battery gets weak fast, but still works. Other battery is fine.
     
  5. Shancaldazar
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    Shancaldazar Well-Known Member

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    First, I would highly recommend cordless power tools over almost all corded power tools (the exceptions being big machines like drill presses, table saws, etc). Corded power tools have very little R&D put into them, and many cases, the cordless tools are lighter, more powerful, and more durable. Also, as a fair note, some of what I'm writing here departs from my opinions in the past, mostly thanks to watching a few people on youtube actually take apart the tools and evaluate their quality, as well as expanded personal experiences with different brands. Here is what I have written in the past (https://mnsubaru.com/threads/buying-tools-what-brand-do-you-favor.49323/#post-808998). I will have some different opinions here though too!

    Skip to the end to see my recommendations if you don't want all the details behind what I like.

    I'm also assuming you don't want to pay Hilti or Metabo prices (arguably the two best cordless manufacturers right now, but at $300-$600 a tool, that's a bit much for most people). In the past I've also praised Festool, but after seeing several of their recent products dissected, it's clear they are cutting corners and relying on their name brand to carry them.

    Milwaukee, DeWalt, and Makita are all solid choices with massive line up of cordless tools and batteries. DeWalt and Makita have stepped up their game over the past year, and these three brands are much more competitive than they were a few years ago. The tools are much more competitive in specs, and DeWalt has now released a 60V tool line, although it still is about as powerful as the Milwaukee Fuel 18V tools (the Fuel motor aren't actually 18V motors, despite being run off 18V batteries. They are closer to 60V). The Fuel 18V line is hard to beat. If you're going to get Milwaukee, DeWalt or Makita, get the brushless/high performance lines. Their brushed/lower tiers of tools are still great, but I believe that other brands (like Ridgid) have made great strides lately to close that mid-grade tool performance gap. Bosch is good, but outdated.

    I still favor Milwaukee because they most often have the most powerful motor/longest run time (although, admittedly, the difference is within the margin of error of most testing procedures now), and their warranty is the longest.

    Where the largest change in cordless tools has been in the "mid grade" brands, and this is where my opinions have greatly changed. Ridgid has rapidly expanded their lineup and introduced some very nice, competitive tools. Their relatively new X5 (generation 5) tool line up is a very solid step forward. They don't quite match the top of the line Milwaukee or DeWalt, but they are easily the best in their class now. They, also, are manufactured by TTI (same company that owns Milwaukee, they are not owned, but just manufacture for Ridgid under license). Some technology is shared between the two lines, with the better bits reserved for Milwaukee. Not as expansive of lines as Milwaukee/DeWalt, but better than Porter Cable or Ryobi and many other house brands. Their Lifetime Service Agreement is nice, but riddled with hoops to jump through to get it to work correctly.

    Ryobi has also MASSIVELY improved. They have revamped their entire line up and brought some solid cordless tools to the game. As far as budget brands go, this would be my go to. They have also expanded their line up significantly and have things like cordless nailers now too. Their tools are not the best in power or runtime, but they are solid choices for a homeowner. Compared to DeWalt or Milwaukee or even Ridgid, their line up is still pretty small, but they have the most commonly used tools and a few others (drill, impact driver, impact wrench, cordless saw). Interestingly enough, Ryobi is owned by TTI (Milwaukee's owners), so Ryobi gets used a test for new tools/concepts. The cordless nailer was first released under Ryobi, and then a Ridgid and Milwaukee version followed later. The oil impact driver was also released here first, then Ridgid, and finally Milwaukee (there were significant differences in design and power, so it's not like you get a milwaukee for ryobi prices).

    Porter Cable has been downgraded in my book, due to the spectacular failure of several tools I've had lately. Since they are incredibly similar to many of DeWalt's lower offerings, that's another reason to stay away from DeWalt's lower tier tools. Not happy with them. I did use the drill pretty hard and almost exclusively for steel, but it should have at least lasted longer than the batteries....there selection is also really small despite them saying years ago that they were going to expand it. Almost no new tools have been released.

    Black/Decker, Craftsman and other house brands are to be avoided. House brands often come and go, meaning you may not be able to buy a battery in 2 or 3 years, or even 6 months after investing hundreds into a new tool line up.

    Not sure how much you are interested in that, but that's the background on my next few suggestions.

    Now, getting more towards your question on drills and impacts. Almost any of the brands I recommended above will be good for drills (assuming you're doing what most people do- wood, little bit of metal/drilling out a bolt, probably never concrete or anything else). Drills are pretty simple and straightforward.

    Impact wrenches are where there are huge differences. Ryobi and Ridgid (or craftsman, kobalt, etc) only offer impact wrenches that have about 300 ft-lbs of torque. That's plenty for lug nuts, and most car work. Struts and heavier duty parts will be at the very limit of the impact, and will mostly depend on how rusty it is. They also are a bit larger than the top brands. Milwaukee, DeWalt and Makita all offer several impact wrenches in various sizes and powers. Milwaukee has a 1/2 drive Fuel high torque impact wrench (1100 ft-lbs), a Fuel 1/2 drive Mid torque impact (600 ft-lbs) and a Fuel compact impact (220 ft-lbs) in 3/8 or 1/2. DeWalt and Makita have similar impact wrenches. The high torque impacts are pretty big and heavy, but competitive with all but the best pneumatic impact wrenches. Mid torque and compact are increasingly smaller, but still pretty good. The mid torque would be perfect for 95% of car work.

    You're looking at about $300 for a Ridgid Drill and Impact, or about $500 for a Milwaukee Drill and impact+ more if you want the different power impact drivers. The Ryobi impact and drill performance isn't too far off from Ridgid though, but that only saves you like $30. You also have to be careful with Ryobi, as they have some very cheap tools still, and some better quality ones (e.g. their $50 drill versus their $120 drill).
     
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  6. predavore
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    predavore Well-Known Member

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    I (skipped that what I assume to be a very good and informative reference) recommend Ridgid. I have their drill, impact drills and 1/2" impact driver. Everything has lifetime warranty including the batteries.
     
  7. derp
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    derp Well-Known Member

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    I'm extremely happy with my Milwaukee cordless tools.
     
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  8. TMF
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    TMF Well-Known Member

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    ^^lots of good info from @Shancaldazar !

    I'll second Milwaukee. I have their M18 Fuel 3/8" cordless impact (210 lb-ft max torque), and it is my absolute favorite tool. I most frequently use it for swapping wheels (I torque my wheels to 90 lb-ft and it has no problem removing them), as well as suspension bolts (no issues removing strut bolts), and pretty much anywhere else I can fit the thing (which is pretty easy, given the compact design).

    A couple additional notes:
    -I bought the tool with 2 standard batteries. The standard battery on a single charge lasts plenty long, even when left sitting for weeks (doesn't lose charge). I can easily swap wheels several times.
    -There is a handy battery level indicator on the battery.
    -The impact also has adjustable torque settings (3). I use the highest setting for removing tight bolts, the middle setting for putting my lug nuts back on (gets them plenty snug...probably around 50-60 lb-ft, and then I torque them with a torque wrench). I used the lowest setting for any bolts/nuts that I don't want to over-tighten or snap (and then finish tightening or torquing with a torque wrench).
    -batteries charge quick, and hold their charge well. The torque is also consistent throughout the battery's life, except for the very end of the battery life.

    Edit: Keep an eye on the sales at Northern Tool. They carry Milwaukee, and I was able to use a $50 off a $200+ purchase when I bought my impact.
     
  9. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    I've mentioned Rigid in the occasional threads on the forum here. For light to mid-duty stuff around the house and or garage, they are hard to beat.

    I like Milwaukee the most fwiw, but it's hard to justify spending the extra cash.(unless i used them daily for my occupation)
     
  10. derp
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    derp Well-Known Member

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    With stuff like that, I'll buy once and spend the extra.
     
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  11. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Well i know that you love your Milwaukees, but Rigids are tough as hell and a hell of alot cheaper too. And i mean cost, not build quality Derpster!:p
     
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  12. blackozone
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    blackozone Well-Known Member

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    Something I don't recall having been brought up so far:
    When you're setting out to start a collection of battery-powered tools, pick one brand from the beginning. Batteries are not inter compatible.
    For me, I set out with Milwaukee tools since I seem to have about 5 irons in the fire at any given time regarding Car/House/Other projects and needed very durable tools. Also, Milwaukee has a much wider offering of unique tools that lended themselves to mechanic use.
    For instance, I will die if I lose this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...ss-3-8-in-Ratchet-Tool-Only-2457-20/203111681
    Milwaukee offers some crazy badass Impact Wrenches as well. That said, @Shancaldazar offers a lot of good information to go by.
    When shopping, keep an eye out at Home Depot for deals. For instance, I bought an M18 Brushless Drill/Driver combo with 2 18v batteries and that 3/8" ratchet was free during a promo. The multi-tool combos should be considered for your first purchase as well. A wireless sawzall is worlds easier to work with than a wired one. Also, an angle grinder has an infinite number of uses in a shop/garage.

    Sites that help for shopping: https://slickdeals.net/, http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36
     
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  13. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    I just recently switched to Milwaukee after having used Bosch for the last several years. Main reason is for whatever reason Bosch seems to be focusing more on the euro market and not so much here. Meaning, I needed a bit more "tougher" capable cordless drill than my Bosch at the time. 1/2" chuck, but just didn't have that big power I needed.

    I got the Milwaukee Fuel drill and impact set through Acme when they had a new year's deal (like 20% off or something). It came with the 5.0 batteries that are pretty much amazing. Heavy? Sorta, but they last forever it seems. And you can get multiple different sizes to match the job you're doing.

    Also, I opted for the "new" fluid drive impact driver. It uses hydraulic fluid as a cushion for the impact mechanism rather than metal on metal like almost all others. It's noticably quieter and transfers way less vibration to your hand and arm. They do have less "peak" torque than a traditional impact driver but the torque curve is more drawn out, rather than rat-a-tat-tat style. Hard to describe but you can notice it instantly when you use it. If you're at all interested you can feel free to demo mine before purchasing. It was really hard to tell an audible difference via YouTube videos. I'm definitely glad I went with it tho.

    Also, main reason I switched to Milwaukee was the flexibility of the other tools you can get, mainly the bad ass 1100 ft lb impact wrench. Makita would've been my second choice.
     
  14. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    If you can afford to go brushless do it you will b happy you did. m,ore power better battery life.
     
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  15. JuStaWRX
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    JuStaWRX Well-Known Member

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    Great info on here. I have bought into the Ridgid lyfe. I have a good buddy who is a Ridgid Ambassador/#TeamRidgid and I have spent the last few years building up my arsenal of their products because of the experiences I have had using his tools.

    I have had great luck as a hobbiest with their products, and the LifeTime warranty is great. Like JasonJordan said, brushless would be pretty sweet. Ridgid has a great line up of those right now (...that came out right after I bought my 5 piece pack...ugh.). They are affordable, good warranty and hard to lose because they are obnoxiously orange. There are also additional pieces that are really nice that can function on the same batteries as the hand tools (fans, radios, lighting, etc.). One of my favorites that I have though is the Multitool. I use it more than anything (except maybe my drill). I do prefer having that corded but most everything else I have is cordless.

    A website you may want to consider that I recently got turned on to was https://www.directtoolsoutlet.com/ . They have primarily, Ridgid and Ryobi tools, but often have some great flash sales for starter kits and such.
     
  16. Ryan FailRad
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    Ryan FailRad Well-Known Member

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    I love my Milwaukee tools.. I like how many different single tools you can get and use just 1 style of battery for all of them
     
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  17. whitey
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    whitey Well-Known Member

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    At work I have a Panasonic impact and drill. If money isn't a concern Panasonic cordless tools are phenomenal. In my shop at home I have Milwaukee M18 and M12 combo kits and a Dewalt 18v combo kit. They've all been problem free so far in 2 years and I use them every day. Ridgid does have lifetime service warranty but I haven't had very good luck with either the 18v or 12v cordless tools. The drill, impact, and multi tool were constantly getting repaired. It finally got to the point I said to hell with them and pitched them in the trash.
     
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  18. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    Pick a brand that you'll be able to grow into. Batteries are the biggest investment, and managing different brand batteries is a pain in the ass.

    I use almost all Milwaukee at home, but keep all my old Ridgid stuff at my cabin. I've got a couple of Ryobi tools I'll hang onto until they break or the batteries wear out, but all new stuff I buy is Milwaukee.

    Milwaukee, Ridgid and Ryobi are all manufactured by TTI and have a lot in common, though generally speaking the quality goes from Milwaukee/Best to Ryobi/Worst, but the variation is not all that huge, really.

    DeWalt is fine if you prefer yellow. I find their ergonomics to be poor, personally, but that's subjective.

    Makita is good too, but the bang for the buck is arguably less, and they're harder to find a broad range of them. Their corded angle grinders are fantastic.

    Panasonic makes great tools, but they're not convenient for the average Joe (e.g. can't buzz over to HD or Lowes and buy a new battery) and don't have as broad a selection.

    Hitachi makes some great corded tools (my tank of a 12" sliding miter saw rocks!), but I've never cared for their cordless.

    Anything I didn't mention is either too obscure to bother with for most people (I mean, if you want to go all Triton/Fein/Festool, be my guest, but you gotta be some kind of perv), or total crap (Black & Decker, Skil, Chicago Electric, etc.)

    If you want to really get into cordless power tools, go to Youtube and search for AvE BOLTR. And be prepared for lots of genial Canadian obscenities, so NSFW if you work with any sensitive types or have virgin earholes.
     
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  19. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    ^Dewalt has always been low on my list also. Too heavy, made for club fists, and I can't get over how terrible they smell when you operate them. I can almost smell the stinky burning electric motor just thinking about it.

    Miter saws, Hitachi hands down. My dad still uses the same compound sliding Hitachi that i used to cut siding with when i worked for him(when i was 15-and i am currently 38).:coffee:
     
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  20. Ryan FailRad
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    Ryan FailRad Well-Known Member

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    You're old as dirt.
     
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  21. whitey
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    whitey Well-Known Member

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    I don't care for Dewalt much either but I couldn't pass up a steal of a deal. Fleet Farm misprinted their ad, it was supposed to say "$125 off" but they forgot the "off" part. So I got a $499 kit for $125.
     
  22. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    A deal like that, I would just get nose plugs! LOL
     
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  23. AspitFire
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    AspitFire Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I couldn't be happier with my Milwaukee Fuel brushless drills and impacts. Haven't had the need to touch any of my air tools since I picked up the 1/2" 2763-20, love that thing!
     
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  24. derp
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    derp Well-Known Member

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    I have their M18 Fuel 1/2 drive impact, their 1/4 drive m12 impact (really damn handy for interior stuff), their m12 drill, and the m13 3/8th drive ratchet. So damn handy.

    The dual charger is money too, charges M18 and m12 batteries. Next on my list is probably a sawzalls or an M18 drill.
     
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  25. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    The most recent series of Hitachi Miters seems really cheap compared to the previous generations.

    I have the C12RSH and it is enormous, and insanely good and solid. Also weighs in at 71 lbs. The C12RSH2 that replaced it weights 10 pounds less, and seems really cheap.
     
  26. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    I'd skip the M18 Sawzall. The M18 "Hackzall" is amazing for a compact tool. It does 90%+ of what my full-on corded Super Sawzall can do.
     
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  27. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Used it...it's badass! I like it more than the Rigid design.
     
  28. Shancaldazar
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    Shancaldazar Well-Known Member

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    My father has one of the M12 Hackzalls. I wander over and borrow it every once in a while.... super useful for car work (cutting out old bolts) and most other jobs needing a sawzall.
     
  29. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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  30. scrltspedstr
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    scrltspedstr Well-Known Member

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    i bet you follow toolguyd
     
  31. scrltspedstr
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    scrltspedstr Well-Known Member

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    Makita 18v brushless sub compact are very nice.
    I ordered some for our shop and am impressed
    Very small and light but powerful. Look nice too haha
    Multiple speeds on the impact

    On sale through 4/30 to get an extra battery included
    230 at home depot or acme
     
  32. belalegosi
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    belalegosi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback all, this is good stuff.
    Been really busy, havent been able to check back in here.
    So the majority seems to favor the Milwaukee so I'll keep an eye out for the M18 fuel line.
     
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  33. scrltspedstr
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    scrltspedstr Well-Known Member

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    keep an eye on craigslist i just bought a brand new M18 Fuel 1/4" Impact gun for $80 instead of $130 new
    i wasnt in the market for one as a have 2 other impacts but the price was right
    i also bought a brand new M18 Fuel Hammer Drill for $75

    So once you have batteries the bare tools are easy to get
     
  34. predavore
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    predavore Well-Known Member

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  35. pillboy
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    pillboy Well-Known Member

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    Since there seems to be a bunch of Milwaukee fans, does anyone have the Milwaukee string trimmer that uses the M18 battery pack? I might need to make a change from my cordless Black & Decker trimmer as it continues to annoy. Thanks in advance for the review.
     
  36. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    I have the maikta version and it works well.
     
  37. scrltspedstr
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    scrltspedstr Well-Known Member

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    i also am interested in the trimmer but 200 is steep
    i can by the ryobi with battery for less
    i have a small yard
     
  38. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    The only cordless yard tools I've found worth owning are the 56v EGO products.
     
  39. GrawvyRobber
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    GrawvyRobber Active Member

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    Anyone have experience with the DeWalt 20v stuff? I'm looking at the 1/2" impact wrench for around $220. I'm reading mixed reviews on whether it can take off lugs though... I'm wanting cordless.
     
  40. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    Any of the name-brand 18v (the DeWalt is the same as everyone else's 18v, they just call it 20v) 1/2" impact wrenches will take off lugs that haven't been put on by a gorilla with a Thunder Gun.

    But I don't see any 1/2" impact wrenches for around $220 from DeWalt unless it's a bare tool? (fine if you already have a battery and charger), otherwise, I'm seeing their 3/8" impact wrench with battery and charger for that price, and that's probably a little iffy for lugnuts.


    Oh, there's the DCF880, I guess that one comes in about $230. It's a little weak at only 150lb/ft, but should still work fine for general tire-swapping.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
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  41. GrawvyRobber
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    GrawvyRobber Active Member

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    That's the one. I liked the size and weight since I have child hands. I won't be using it everyday and it's not for work purposes. Just for the rex. I'm just clueless about brand quality and would like to start my collection with a good start. This will kind of decide for the rest of the told I get so I can keep the same batteries and chargers of course. I'd rather get quality that will last me years than save a few bucks now and have to buy new again in a few years.
     
  42. Vector
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    Vector Rally Organizer

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    I personally feel like most of the current DeWalt tools feel oversized and bloated vs the other options, and the balance is poor on a lot of them. And I have monster hands. They also do less over-molding than many other brands, which can make them less comfortable to use over a long period (but they'll hold up better in an oily environment, so there's a trade-off involved).

    But if they work for you, that's what matters, quality will be fine and there's a wide variety of tools that will use the same batteries and chargers, so you can't go very wrong there.