yup, car's not loving life right now. p0300, p0301, and p0302. Yuk. anyways, i've been running one step colder plugs and probably have 14-16K on them at the most. the only thing I did differerntly was a couple gallons of race gas mixed in the tank with shell v-power for the duluth trip. I did throw about 5 gallons of 91 octane in there from BP in Duluth (yup, right before chet tried to blow up the place):biggrin: question...i know i'm tuned for the v-power only, that's why I brought race gas with....hoping to offset the lesser octane gas. FYI- car drives normal most of the time with the occassional misfire and then the CEL comes on. I only got the cels AFTER filling up with the BP gas. would that of caused it? Or is it coincidence? any other thoughts or recommedations??
It's the tune.... What are your mods? I think your stage 2, right? If so, flash it back to the Cobb map and see if the problem goes away.
LOL:biggrin: now come on Dream, I know you have issues with Russ.... the car has been running great until Saturday. If it was the tune these issues would've showed up before now. I've beat the car pretty hard a few times after the tune
It doesnt matter. I've had the SAME issues and they dont turn up untill a few days later, maybe even a week. This has nothing to do with me vs. Russ. I just suggest getting a tune by somebody who does it for a living. Get your money's worth man.
I understand your thoughts, but when datalogging with Russ all parameters were spot on. And I've been running the tune for about 3 weeks. I've probably had 20 or so WOT pulls since the tune with no issues what so ever. I'm not going to pay for Jorge or Clark until I have the 2.5 block and gears....ohhh that will be a good day!!:yumyum: you had the same issues? random misfire and misfire codes on one or two cylinders? Do you remember what part of your tune was bunk?
I was never told what part of the tune was "bunk" it was just fixed with the tuner sending me new maps. I guess I dont understand people who put all this money into performance parts on the cars and then refuse to get a real tune, i'll never understand that.
One other thing to check. Try swapping out for new coil packs OR switching them around and see if the missfires happen on the same cyclinders.
Or just be gentle on the car and fill up with your regular gas when it's dry. At least that might let you know if it was the mess of random gas you tossed in. You getting the CELs during hard driving, WOT, or normal driving?
Just because they get paid to tune doesn't mean that they may necessarily be any good. IMHO, learn how to do it yourself (if you aren't a complete retard) if you want it done right. I honestly don't believe that an hour or two on a dyno is the best solution for a FULL tune. At best, it will provide a good starting point to work from.
Truth here. Even 1-2 hours of road tuning isn't optimal. You may get a fairly safe and decent tune, but the Subaru ECU is ****ing complicated. I'm pretty much always tweaking my own car.
Not everybody can just "learn" to tune, Tom. Nor do most people have time to sit and ticker with that. Basically, not everybody is as smart as you :biggrin: I still say you go to somebody who is a well known t00ner, and gets paid for it
+1 Shut up, Tom. On the other hand, I've seen some really awful tunes from "Pro-tuners" who own a really nice dyno but don't know crap about Subarus.
Well, this is probably off in the wrong direction AND you are all probably up on this, but here is my only (and very non-knowledgeable) thought: all the BPs that I know of have up to 10% Ethanol in all grades of their gas. Including the ones that don't have it posted at the pump when I have asked about it inside. Could this be related?
Define a "real" tune? Many people tune their cars without a "Pro tune" and they run just fine. I've had no issues with my car and and I tuned it 100% myself. My setup is also ALOT different than most people's on here. Dreamis, you're a little out of your leauge here.
Wow Dream, you have alot of hate. Dave, could be plugs. I have seen this pop up on cars that are running 110 leaded in a car that wasn't tuned for it. Russ
+1 step colder plugs??? maybe a money shift, hope to god thats not it(bent valves FTL...speaking of all of this...Tom, i miss your tuning
Congrats on tuning your own car, much props. Im willing to bet if somebody like Jorge tuned it, he would make it run better, and make more power. This is my only point, so me being out of my leauge here, your f'in crazy. I have had multiple setups with multiple ECU's and turbo's to know what the hell im talking about there. I've had a Russ tune before. :roll: Like I said before, you spend XXX amount of money on your car, why not get the BEST tune and the MOST out of your setup? I'll never understand the people who dont, thats all im saying. If your happy with a road tune or doing it yourself, good for you.
For a setup like the one Dream had I would have to agree, I would want the most out of my car. In Scuba's case just slapping a 16G on a 2.0 and having Russ or someone else around here tune it, is not only more convenient but its also quite a bit cheaper. That being said that would also be the direction I would take for those mods. I wouldn't spend half as much on the tune as I did the parts but IMHO.
Put a full tank of your normal fuel back in and drive it around for a couple hours before you do anything drastic.
just an update: 1. I inspected the plugs (NGK one step colder), they looked okay. replaced with new stockers I had sitting in the garage and swapped coil packs. I went for a drive and the car still ran like ass with the same codes coming up. 2. I only had 1/8 of a tank left from the Duluth trip so I ran the car out of gas on purpose and then filled up with Shell v-power. 3. After filling up with v-power I reset the ecu and went for a drive. The car now runs great again. Just like it did before adding gas at BP in Duluth. 4. I drove the car after the fill for 50 miles (yup, I know...it's a lot). I did WOT, light throttle, partial boost (10psi), and highway cruising. I even stopped the car three times, shut it off for 5 minutes and started it back up. Still no codes and still had full power...smooth power, no stumbles. Thinking back. Pete witnessed this too as he was in my car for a bit. As we left the gas station and drove about 5 miles the car threw a cel and misfired. It must have been a random misfire p0300 because it went off and drove fine again for awhile. I'll keep you posted if it happens again, but for now I'm thinking it was more than likely gas related Another note. We all know subaru ecus are finicky bastards. Even the best tuners can run into issues, especially since we all have custom set-ups and each car reacts differently. to start pointing fingers when you don't know **** about tuning is just lame. I started the thread looking for help and it turns into a flaming party...that's just BS. As for tuning it myself, I couldn't agree more. That way if something goes wrong I can laugh or yell at myself. I'm trying to learn as we speak, but right now I only know enough to get myself in trouble. Ask Rick (Silver03), he's probably sick of me rambling about ECU crap while at work. However, I just don't have time to dedicate to learning how to tune properly. Someday I hope! and I DO NOT want more power out of my set-up....heck no! I have full boost (20.5 or so) by 2800rpm and the car takes off real hard when the engine catches up....4000-4100rpm:eek3: any more power and this engine and/or tranny could easily take a dump. I have been very happy with Russ and all his efforts! One of the biggest reasons for the 16g set-up was to learn if I could do it. I did the installation alone. I have done everything to that car on my own with the exception of the clutch and timing belt when I didn't have the time to do it myself. Otherwise I have personally modded my car 100% and I wanted this under my belt before stepping up to a installation of a new motor and gear set.
Props. IMHO, that's what it's all about. :biggrin: So it sounds like you got some bunk gas, that sucks. Lets hope the problems don't suddenly come back.
When the "pros" tune any car, they will almost always leave something on the table to reduce their risk of any liabilities. Thus, you won't get the MOST ouf of your setup, so to speak. If you think you can get the most out of your setup from just a few dyno pulls, you're insane.
Of course they leave alittle on the table, never said they didnt. ...and 2 hours on the dyno with a pro should get you where you should be, followed up with a quick road log with the tuner to make sure everything is OK. good luck Dave, hope it works out for ya.
Thanks. I love actually working on my own car. I couldn't see myself deserving a set-up I didn't actually install myself. No way...but that's just me. I do admit though, when I get the short block and start building the motor and gears I will need to get someone else involved. But when i put in the new turbo set-up and all the other goodies it will be by my own hands. and yes, I hope it was the gas.....I have my fingers crossed!
You damn kids and your race gas!!! Actually it was probably that crappy Duluth gas. Glad to hear its running well.
Yeah, I'm going with the duluth gas cause I ran the race gas all the way up there with no issues. it wasn't until I put a few gallons of the gas station gas in there that it acted up...and it acted up quickly after that...:roll:
glad to hear its back to normal. it could be something with the BP gas or the 110 if you arnt tuned for it. what kinda of NGKs are you running? coppers? Iridiums? I have heard of issues with leaded gas cuasing misfires. the particles are larger and collect on the plug. Copper plugs have more surface area (from what i have gathered) and can withstand more build up then other plugs. just a possibility.
What you've had really doesn't matter. The fact that you've never done any of this stuff yourself negates a lot of your credibility. Again, a couple hours on a dyno is NOT a full tune. How do you account for things like cold start, air temp compensations, and so on? Tuning on the dyno is good for high load tuning at those conditions. Manufacturers spend months or years perfecting their ECU parameters, traveling to alaska and death valley, and everywhere inbetween. I'm not saying people like Jorge aren't good at what they do. They are also good at getting it done in a short period of time because dyno time is expensive, and customers aren't willing to pay for a day(s) of time. But in all honesty, its really not that complicated. Anyone willing to do a little homework and put in enough time can do it, and safely with the right tools.
Wow cause a guy pays to have a fast car means he doesn't know something.....Please. Some people don't have the skill or the know how to put a fast car to gether RIGHT. So they pay some one to do the work for them. Big woop. This is true. Getting a full tune is not going to happen in two hours. This is true to. You can learn if you spend the time to. To me tuning makes no sense. I will gladly pay some one to tune my car in order to get the most out of it. Why do I want to chase my tale for months trying to get my car right when a pro tuner will get me there in a day or two.
Some do it because it's fun -- just like wrenching on cars. I'm sure at one time you sucked at building cars but you stuck with it until you got where you were today.
Honestly, I personally just really like to know that my car is running well all the time. The simple fact that I can plug in and grab some logs at anytime to ensure my baby is running well is awesome. I never have to contact someone else to come help.. That, and I just plain and simple like to know how everything works...and it's freaking fun to tune.
