What say you? I personally think that it's a good thing. Most other nations have them and it would really cut down on the hassle of getting a new ID each time I move. (I move often). I think the privacy concerns are a little far-fetched. The only thing I won't like is having to have yet another card in my wallet.
Sounds like a REALLY good idea. I'll have to remove my victoria's secret card to make room in my jam-packed wallet, but it'll be worth it.
Do you think they'll put GPS on it? It'd be cool to find someone anywhere in the world by searching for them on say, Google.
Someone in my speech class was freaking about the ID card, namely the RFID in it. He seems to think that the government is going to be able to track you via GPS with it, and know everything about you from it. I explained how thats not possible at this juncture. GPS requires a powered receiver and is a too high of a frequency for a card to get it in your wallet next to an inch of other cards. He still didn't believe me. I said OK, my uncle was one of the guys that developed our GPS system down at Rockwell Collins for the government. They had the entire constellation set up in a lab before anything was in orbit.
VERY VERY BAD IDEA if you value your civil liberties and writes to privacy as an American citizen! http://www.news.com/Why-Real-ID-is-a-flawed-idea/2010-1028_3-6228491.html
I value my rights as a citizen but I don't see how having a national ID card is going to infringe on them. Hell, I have pretty much a national ID card right now in the form of my passport. The US Gov and the DHS know every time I've left the United States, how long I was gone, where I went, and how long I spent there. Oh please save me from the faceless gov't that is trying to take away all my privacy. National ID Card: Good idea unless you're a terrorist.
I still don't see a problem with it, it would be a great idea for keeping illegals out, and protect us from terrorists and such.
I don't want another 9/11. Are you saying you want another 9/11 Taras? These cards could go a long way to prevent such atrocities.
Shouldn't the nation be enforcing the immigration and identity laws already in place? And there is no way that this plan is going to cost anywhere near the amount they say it will. When was the last time the federal gov't spent LESS money on a plan than what was originally figured? By the stroke of a pen it suddenly costs 25% of the original cost? That's a good one. I'm not concerned with the gov't spying on me - I'm not a celebrity or politician so I'm pretty safe in that regard - but I AM worried about the data getting into the wrong hands. We've seen, in the last several years, how easy it is for private info to be stolen from laptops that go home with employees. These are employees with access to that type of info who presumably have gone through security clearance background checks, yet they still manage to go against security regulations by taking the info out of secured areas. A national ID card does nothing to keep people out in the first place. And it also does nothing to address the various programs that spend state tax money by providing social services to illegal immigrants. And last, it doesn't fix the "born in the USA" loophole, where if an illegal gives birth here in the States, the child is automatically given citizenship. Instead of fixing those things, somehow yet another federal program is the new answer. I'm a bit skeptical. The plan doesn't address the real problems - folks waltzing through the screen door that we call our national borders, our unwillingness to deport the large number of illegals that we already find on a daily basis, and providing them with taxpayer-supported services once they make it in. Maybe it'll help but it doesn't mean much if we don't do anything about those folks found without a national ID card. Given our record of allowing the illegals to do pretty much whatever they want in this country, I don't have high hopes for this plan. Sounds good on paper...
I don't really care if the government wants to know what kind porn I'm looking at or what color my poopie was. Felonies and drug records should be attainable anyway. I want them to be able to find my dead body if I were taken away and beaten to death or at least the person who killed me. I'm sure they would destroy the card though... great...my dead body is stranded.
anyhow I like the idea, I mean remember firestone two weeks ago? The Mexican immigrant with two SS numbers? WTF.
This is a well-constructed and thought-provoking argument. We'll have none of that, here. Take your bag of parlor tricks and peddle them somewhere else, mister.
Isn't a passport, technically a "National" ID? Do we really need ANOTHER form of ID? Fixed* - By the stroke of a DECODER pen it suddenly costs 25% of the original cost? That's a good one.
The main issue I've heard is that the barcode/magentic strip will be machine readable plain text with all your info. (Right now it just has your DL# and maybe a bday) Card you at the stripclub, they'll now swipe it. Your address is in the system. Explain the new junkmail to your wife. The other issue I've heard is that it may usurp some places (like CA) who's DLs are more secure than real ID. Don't know if this is true though. If this problem is/was fixed, its generally a good idea. I still have a CA DL (still a resident), and bars have no clue how to read it. Further, hard to forge, etc. I already have a passport and an SSN, so i'm not to worried about the givernment having my info. It would be nice to make sure this stuff is secure, but i feel that way anyhow. This is not a loophole. Its the 14th Amendment.
Yes this is a great point. THey would need to pass a law on mail box spaming for all this crap. But the card overall is a good Idea. But what is a better idea is that they hire me and some friends, Pay for my gas, guns, and bullets, and food. And a small salary and I will go and round up all the illegals and deport them myself.
I think it might be solved by an encryption of everything but the number, name, and age (all a private party would need), make useing a card reader to decyrpt the code by a business be seriously punished, making using that info more seriously punishable, etc. Another issue might be giving these to legal immigrants who don't have green cards. If these are used for employment, this might be an issue. For example, a person with a student visa needs to get DL, and currently can (hence why DLs are not legal for proof of employment eligibility), but I wonder how this would effect it. The other problem is this. In CA, an illegal immigrant can get a DL. This has one serious advantage. They can then have a legally registered car that is covered by insurance. This has helped reduce the number of uninsured drivers in CA. And if people realize that a DL does nothing to prove legality, etc it works out fine. The fact is that even with this id program there will be millions of illegals in this country. If they hit me in a car, i'd prefer them to be insured. Certainly we want to make sure people come here legally (and have a route to do it -- which i'd go into in more depth, if I didn't think it would be way off topic), but we also want to make sure that if they are here, they can have an insured car (because they will drive).
You're right. My bad. I feel this is a major root cause for the immigration protests from a couple years back, when folks were saying that immigrant families were going to be torn apart as the legalized kids were left behind in America when the illegal parents faced deportation. In the no-fault states, is the insurance problem still valid? Or am I not understanding what no-fault insurance is all about?
Isn't this ordeal party due to some states having a joke for and id/DL? Some that I've seen are so easy to make fakes of its crazy. The old MN DL was insanely easy to fake. The previous one was better, but the new one is badass.
This is a legitmate, troublesome issue. However, they can come back after they turn 18, stay in the US with relatives, or a number of other options. There are a number of technical issues here, but none are completely unsolvable with a solution that doesn't upend a key element in civil rights law in the last 100+ years. I sort of see this type of stuff as an attempt to end-run around the 14th amendment, which bothers me. No fault covers injuries only to your limit (in Minnesota and most other no fault states, Michigan is weird though) if you're insured It does not cover: people who the car hits who don't have auto insurance (peds, bikes, etc who don't have cars and therefore car insurance -- interesting factoid though is that in these case if you ahve auto insurance sometimes your company will cover you, helpful for hit and runs) injuries over the policy limit -- Health care is goddamn expensive and that ~$30k min here isn't enough. For beyond that, the other insurance company pays) any property damage (Michigan is an exception here, in MI moving cars are covered by the owner's policy, not at fault. However, parked cars, buildings, etc are covered by the at-fault party). The main advantage to no-fault is reducing lawsuits over injury amounts under $50k or so which flood the courts and make TV lawyers "rich." The whole problem with the whole immigration debate (and i don't want to derail too much) is making sure people are legal (and have paths to immigrate legally) but also make sure those who are here illegally (because you will never end illegal immigration unless you open the borders and that a bit to extreme for even the most permissive person) are able to operate within systems such as to prevent the rest of us from being screwed.
I'm with Taras on this one. It will be looked back upon America that "for the greater good" we gradually lost our civil liberties and the noose of accountability to government will slowly tighten around all of us. Watch...
I love slippery slopes, and i don't mean that saracstically. i see slippery slopes everywhere. This if done properly* is not a slippery slope. * Yes, this is the government, I realize it won't be done properly.
More like they are misunderstanding...Passports are getting RFID and it should scare the hell out of you. You walk by a scanner at the airport and they know everything on your passport. ...there was a couple of guys in Europe that have already 'faked' the RFID chip in Passports....no more security. Etc, etc. They thought it was GPS, but the reality is all they need is a specific scanner. :O
RFID is an issue. Though Nation ID shouldn't have RFID, only passports. If only life ways that simple. You won't get them all out. Also, before doing that we're going to need some guest worker program or labor intensive ag (fresh tomatoes cannot be picked mechanically) will be in big trouble (and this really is a "job they won't do" thing. Most illegals won't take this job either, so pay is actually pretty high.) Also, we need to make sure we apply the laws equally. An English guy can live here decades illegally without getting found out, but every Mexican is targeted. Also worth noting that there is no Visa lottery or line for Mexicans. Only way in is H1-B (****ed up process in itself, Ph.Ds and MDs have trouble getting in) or a family "pull-in." We have an extremely ****ed up immigration system and I could go on for pages about it. We need a seriously reformed immigration system before I start vilanizing otherwise law-abiding working illegal immigrants. Lots of them deserve to be here more than say Paris Hilton (mmm, logical falacy and I don't care). Currently, it is extremely hard to get leaders in thier fields here to get visas (the aformentioned Ph.Ds and MDs) and this is already starting a bit of a brain drain out of the US high-tech industry.
