Opinions on Big MAF

Discussion in 'Modifications And Maintenance' started by bora28, May 27, 2010.

  1. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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  2. pocketrocket
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    pocketrocket Well-Known Member

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  3. Bullwinkle
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    Bullwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Have tuned both, would much prefer the APS unit.


    This is a terrible idea. Out of all the parts of which to do correctly on your Subaru, your intake is arguably the most important. Don't cheap out or you will regret it later when your tuner is unable to safely tune your car, or it eats a piston.
     
  4. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    I prefer kstech's intakes
    but out of those 2, the aps please
     
  5. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    Ooh, I'm liking the 83mm KS Tech ones! I just need to figure out witch one to get.... I need it to connect to APS replica 3" inlet, and I prefer filter in the fender, but high in the fender not a puddle sucker (been there before)....
    any thoughts?


    and pocketrocket... im NOT crafty and on a budget and Bullwinkle is right... MAF's are like WuTang Clan... They aint nothin' to f*ck with!
     
  6. Lowrider
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    Lowrider Well-Known Member

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    Wu Tang clan..:eek4: thought they are like Public Enemy
     
  7. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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  8. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    Give KSTech a call
     
  9. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    Ok, so I'm planning on ordering very soon and still havent decided on what to get. Most people have had good things to say about the APS unit (proven performance, good fittment especially to my aps replica inlet, and it sits where i want it to in the front fender, not too low to the ground). I'm mainly concerned with the maf diameter. I'm upgrading from my k&n typhoon due to my new turbo setup will most likely max it out. The APS unit is available in 70mm, KStech is available up to 83mm. Should i go with the "bigger is better" frame of mind or go with the APS? I should probably be around 400awhp (check my build thread for details on the supporting mods)... Any advise would be appreciated!
     
  10. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think with an 83mm MAF that you'll have idling issues?
     
  11. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    dont know, thats why im asking
     
  12. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    No, if tuner tunes it correctly, it should be fine and drives without issues
     
  13. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    Thanks Nuke, thats what I was thinking, but I didnt want to say anything without knowing for sure. Good to know.

    So is there any advise for MAF diameter, is 70mm sufficient or would it beneficial to go bigger?
     
  14. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    Kind of like injectors, you can go bigger though it may not be needed.
     
  15. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    There is a limit to how big one can go with a MAF though. A 4" (101mm) MAF doesn't work that well. Resolution at low airflows become an issue with a really big MAF.
     
  16. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    seems to be fine here lol.
     
  17. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    83mm /= 101mm
     
  18. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    So I shouldn't be maxing out a APS 70mm CAI with my blouch 2.5xtr, 850cc, pump gas setup? Cus thats the one I'm leaning towards. I'm ditching my K&N Typhoon short ram due to being told it will probably be close to being maxed out with my set up, and the desire to get cooler air from inside the fenderwell. I also like their design, its not as much of a puddlesucker (I've hydrolocked before and I want to avoid a really low CAI).
     
  19. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    It has the 4 inch maf on it lol
     
  20. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    Although it's apples to oranges (2010 STi with stock 70mm MAF), I managed to get close to maxing out my MAF with a FP Green HTA (56 lb/min) and a set of 1000cc injectors, pushing her over 410tq/370hp on E85. Maybe look for a 73mm? or a 74mm? If you're looking for 400s, those should do the trick and maintain good resolution. P&L makes a good big MAF intake, and Perrin makes a good big MAF for 04-07s.
     
  21. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    Well, I'm pretty sure I wont be hitting 400 on a 93tune, I just want to know I have enough breathing room to one day get there. The P&L is only available in a short ram, and I'd like to get into the fender. I cant figure out how big the Perrin one is, but claims to be capable of supporting 500+ which should be way more than enough. I've heard mixed opinions on Perrin, I looks like it might go really low into the fender, I'd love to hear from someone with experience w/ the Perrin big maf, also curious about the foam style filter they use. KSteck seems to be sold out of the one I would go for (the CAI Mega)... This is hard!
     
  22. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    Here's my take on the Perrin, and intakes in general. The Perrin intake is cheap. At some point in 2005 or so, Jeff Perrin decided his **** didn't stink anymore, and instead was made of solid gold...and he passed that value on to you, the consumer in the form of higher prices. The only thing is, the quality remains the same. Crap. If you like to spend market value for parts, only to spend the next few weeks wrestling those parts to make them fit correctly, then by all means, go Perrin. The foam filter, to me, seems cheap, but that's just me, I haven't seen anyone have issue with it, I just consider the company's track record, and consider the nerf filter to be suspect.
    But on to my next point. If you are considering 500hp for any reason, you might want to just forget about how big you can make your MAF tube and drop the MAF altogether.
    Let me give all of you browsing this thread talking big dreams and numbers a bit of a reality check. The jump from 300-400 takes about 1/5th the investment of going 400-500. And I'm talking about MustangDyno numbers here, not the Dynojet-love-numbers everyone likes to see. If you are buying your intake based on its ability to, in the future, handle up to 500whp, you need to rethink your strategy. I've seen tons of supposed 500 hp applications in the Subaru world. And every time, I see one of two things...

    1) it's skewed numbers. If you go to Nasioc's Proven Power Bragging forum, you need to make sure to get a reality check. Crawford Performance got their pee-pee slapped right out of their hands a few years back when they claimed close to 600hp on 720cc injectors. Then you have toolbags like Big "Bro" Al that are making similar claims as of late. It's math. It isn't magic. X amount of air volume + Y amount of fuel inside a cylinder with the volume of Z when the spark goes off is going to make (N) horsepower. You will fluctuate here and there on air temps and such, but you should be able to take the VE of your turbo/motor/fuel system setup and determine your crank HP from it. And then simply take out about 18-20% for RSMotors numbers.

    2) It's a franken build of some sort. Custom setups. Especially in the piping department. If you are thinking about 500hp in a bolt-on parts world, you need to rethink your strategy.

    Sorry for the tangent there, but I felt like it had to be said.
     
  23. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    ^ Well said.


    Those of us chasing 400+whp on pump fuel (not corn, so don't come in here spouting off about E85) have enough into these cars to buy a new WRX outright.
     
  24. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    ^ This. He's right. I put $2600 + labor & tuning to get to 370 whp on the mustang at RS with E85. If I want to get to 500 whp (which is where this car seems headed, despite my better judgment), I'm looking at $10,000 for a built long block which will flow better and handle the kind of torque/horsepower that a 35r will generate. On top of that, it's another $4000 for the P&L 35r kit that will get me that power. This doesn't include the supporting mods I've done to handle all of that power (fuel system, intake/inlet, clutch, suspension, bushings, wheels and good rubber, too).

    It's a ****ing money pit. If I didn't have a raging boner for all things Subaru related, I would have bought a Porsche and been done with it.
     
  25. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    The funny thing is, if you want that on E85, a drop-in pump isn't going to do it for you. You could run dual walbros, but you should have a surge tank anyways. That just opened up a $1000-1500 fuel system. Also, if you think you can run peak-and-hold injectors effectively with a resistor box, you are cutting yourself off at the knees. There is a right way and a wrong way...
     
  26. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    I've been pouring over dual walbro/surge tank posts on NASIOC for the better part of a week. I'm looking at the new ID 2000cc injectors. Them things ain't cheap, son.
     
  27. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    At least line and fittings don't break the bank if you know where to look. Aeroquip Fluid Conveyance products are where it's at. Aeroquip FC350 hose and associated fittings save a ton of money over the traditional braided crap. Earl's hose and hose ends are garbage, so stay away from that.
     
  28. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I'll see what I can find there.

    /hijack :)
     
  29. piddster
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    piddster Lone Wolf

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    Power Systems in Chanhassen.
     
  30. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    I dont plan on ever getting to 500 and will probably not even getting into the 400's any time soon. Don't know how everyone here thought that was what I was going for. I do appreciate the input though. Let me put it this way. From what I have gathered, the APS seems good. Fitment should be fine, no negative input, sits in the fender where I want it to, good quality etc... My only question is this: I've been told that with my current set up, once i get everything up and running, I might be limited by the flow of my K&N Typhoon short ram, and I like the idea of going to a CAI to help lower temperatures. If going with the APS 70mm big maf CAI, will I regret not looking into something a little larger, or should that be just fine for pump gas setup. Post #18 pretty much sums it up...
     
  31. samoya22
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    samoya22 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's where people got the idea you were aiming for 400.
     
  32. readymix
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    readymix ...Lest ye be trod upon... Staff Member

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    That and the comment about the up to 500whp from the intake capacity.
     
  33. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    :eek:wned:
    I should have worded it better... As in, I should be in the mid to upper 300's with 400 being a future possibility. But def. not getting into the 400-500's with this car!

    So, APS?
     
  34. Nuke
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    Nuke Well-Known Member

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    You'll be fine with the aps 70mm
     
  35. bora28
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    bora28 New Member

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    Thank You