Two weeks ago I was happily searching around for a 2015 Forester. Due to life changes, I'm mining the under-$10K listings, looking for gold. I feel like I'm spamming the internet with this question, but there are two camps where ever I ask this question: Camp 1) The 2003 Forester is fine; Camp 2) The 2003 Forester will be a money pit. Here's the short story (I can be more verbose if you want!). We have a 2012 Forester. We have a 2005 Focus ZX3 SES that we can't fit out infant into. Wife has taken a look at a few cars, keeps going back to the Forester. I see only the Mitsubishi Outlander as competition, but they are all more expensive than the available Foresters. I found a 2003 Forester X, manual, 75k miles, clean CARFAX w/ 1 owner from Illinois. Car failed Illinois emissions in 2013 and passed the next week. Dealer Price: $7,900. I think it can go down. I would have Morrie's Brooklyn Park do the pre-purchase inspection (I assume they do those...haven't actually called yet) I research on the internet about the 2003 Forester, and I see fuel smells, head gaskets, rear bearings, and O2 sensors failing. I'm not a mechanic and no intelligent person would trust me actually touching any of these car parts, so we would have our local independent mechanic do this sort of work. However, I also do research on the internet and I hear "no problems," "minor fixes," and "usual wear and tear." I look at comparable priced CR-Vs, and they have twice the mileage of this Forester and possible exploding air conditioners. I look at comparable spec Outlanders, and they are $2,000 more, but are near free of major engine repair issues. I feel that the more I talk to people in the know, they are telling me to put the brakes on the 2003 Forester (which, punnily enough, is another common repair for these). I know all old cars have their issues. Somebody please smack me in the head here? The idea is to spend less than $10k total (b/w purchase and repairs) and have a car that will safely get us around our rural roads for the next 5ish years. I would love to hear some of your informed opinions on the 2003 Forester X!
One thing to consider is that it will need the timing belt replaced in a couple years, which is a couple grand I think. Whoever does the inspection, I'd ask them to do a very thorough check for head gasket issues - for example doing a hydrocarbon sniff test in the coolant, which isn't standard inspection item but is the best(?) way to catch internal gasket leakage. They/you can also check coolant ph&voltage over time to help prevent corrosion. You can add extra ground straps to the engine to help fight gasket corrosion, which is something Subaru did in a later MY to help prevent this issue. If the car hasn't had regular oil changes and coolant changes, that would make me more hesitant about it, do they have maint records? External oil leaks aren't necessarily a huge deal assuming the internal leak checks pass testing, they can be monitored for years without getting bad enough to require fixing. If you check all this with a passing grade, and are prepared to shell out 2-3k at some point if the gaskets do fail (it's possible despite doing all the right pre-purchase tests), then I wouldn't be scared away all MY of cars have their own weaknesses... Hope this helps, Eric
Great response! I just found the car last night, so I'm waiting for the dealership to open in order to talk to them about it--maybe they have service records, maybe not. If I end up pursuing the car, I'll make sure to have the pre-purchase inspection mechanic add the sniff test to their roster.
It might be prudent to have the timing belt done sooner rather than later. Even though it is a ways away from the mileage recommendation, it is past the time (in months) for replacement. I just had it done on my 2005 Legacy which has less than 60,000 miles and Morrie's Minnetonka price was $499 (with no additional parts needed...just belt only) - but be aware that a tensioner, idler pulleys and maybe a water pump if it is weeping coolant would be extra. With a couple pulleys and tensioner, mine totaled $709 (with MNSubaru discount) before tax and shop fees. Our 2002 Outback needed head gaskets at 124,000 miles due to external oil leaks. A car this age could need brakes, battery, tires, driveline fluid changes, coolant change, brake fluid change (maybe calipers if the previous owner never changed fluid), spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter, CV boots, and accessory belts. Any competent shop should be able to point out these deficiencies to you. Repairs are usually less than new car payments, but make sure to reserve some money for repairs and not buy at the very top of your budget. I don't think car dealers have the capability of sharing service records even if the vehicle had maintenance done at a local (to previous owner) Subaru dealer. Recall repairs being completed probably comes through corporate Subaru computer records. If there are no paper receipts included with the car, I doubt the local dealer can provide you with any service maintenance records. Good luck.
Head gaskets are your biggest unknown. You should definitely look for records of the head gaskets being replaced and the heads being decked. This would be a costly factor if it hasnt been done already. Dont worry about the timing belt until the 90k interval. When you do, you should replace the timing belt (and bearings), the water pump, and have your valve clearance checked. Doing all of these things at the same time will likely save you money in the long run and contribute to a longer lasting engine. Almost all of the GD (02-07 wrx, 04-07 sti, 05-06 Saab 9-2x, 03-05 forester and 06-08 forester) based subaru chassis' have the "fuel smell" but its pretty non-consequential in most cases. I have had it smell once in my 06 forester xt and it was faint at best. Another issue with these foresters is the lower control arms rusting. When you have the dealership do a pre-purchase inspection, have them do the lca recall check (the lower control arms were recalled for premature rusting). Truely the NA subaru's biggest issues are the head gaskets. If the engines are maintained well, they will last a long time. The benefit of the forester is its awd system in the winter. It is hands down the best option beyond an audi. My gripe with my forester is its too small. I think comparably, the second gen crv is a lot roomier and would be advantageous for a growing family. The 3rd and 4th generation Foresters are significantly roomier than the 2nd gen. Another thing to consider is, if you are planning on financing is the benefit of new/newer car loans vs older used car loans. Almost all 2012+ subarus have a 5 start safety rating, cars newer than 2010 you can finance up to 6 years (most older cars max at 4), and if you buy new (from certain dealerships) you can get a lifetime powertrain warranty. Additionally, the newest generation of subarus gets significantly better gas mileage than the 2003 forester you are considering. Just some food for thought.
That's a really good point! Originally, when we started looking at cars, we identified the 2015 Forester as ideal due to its increased size in addition to gas mileage. I had working quotes from 3 dealers, even. We backtracked when my wife lowered her hours at work due to environment changes that were beyond our control, and suddenly we were in the used car market again. Increasingly, the voices from wizened Subaru owners say, "take a breath and wait." I think it's spreadsheet time! Time to calculate costs across the board. Thanks for the advice!
No problem, its always good to get some different opinions on whats the best step to take. If money is an issue, there are a few ways you can get discounts on new cars. You can PM me for details if you want. This may make it more financially feasible. Also consider that on a used car (to pillboy's point), that you will almost always have to shell out money for some repair when you buy used. I bought my fxt 7 months ago with 75k and I am already at ~89k and will be gearing up to do the timing belt, water pump and valve adjustment in the next 12-18 months. Once nice thing is that the first 75-100k of a new car involves little to no maintenance. If you were to buy a car from Morries, it would come with 9 free oil changes, 3 per year (I think). With your family, safety would be my number 1 concern. As a 6'4" tall, 2nd gen forester owner, I am certain if I were to get in a serious accident that I would break several bones. Crash protection is significantly better on the newer Subarus.
I ended up building a quick form that compares the amenities of the 2015, 2014, 2012 (the one I own already), 2007, and 2003 Foresters, along with a 2006 Outlander. The new Foresters included the assumption that they were bought from Morrie's with the lifetime powertrain and a couple free oil changes. Incorporated a bunch of variables for repairs, oil changes, so forth. The 2015 Forester is actually the cheapest option for this calendar year, and very competitive over the next few years. This has provided me with a lot to think about. Thanks!
