So I was thinking about it yesterday.... would it be extra hard on the car if I were to run snow tires on just the front durring the winter. I figure that it would save me a bunch of money over 4 tires and it would help my winter driving considerably. You always see FWD or RWD cars throw tires on just the front or rear. I figure, if I'm not looking for snowmobile style performance in the white stuff, 2 snow tires would still get me performing considerably better than nothing and loads better than any two wheel drive setup. Problem.... I know that throwing uneven loads on the AWD system is hard on the center dif. Would the loads be high enough to cause problems with the two wheel winter setup? Side winter note.... anybody ever sled downtown behind their suby in parking lots? F**ing Awesome! Gotta try it.
Good question i am actually considering the same thing just becasue money is tight. i would think it would be ok as long as each tire on the axel is the same size but i honestly dont know for sure
oh and yes we do the whole sledding behind a suby thing.. look in the firestone picture thread under the pictures/video forum.
NO NO NO NO AND NO, snow tires are considerably softer then regular tires = a smaller tire to spin because of the "squash" that it has...you'll smoke your transfer clutches if your car is an auto and smoke your viscous coupler if your car is a manual...ever see that idiot withe the blue bug eye RS run around with 19s in the front and 16s in the back? yeah hes looking @ tranny problems any day now NEVER run different sized or different brand tires ALL THE SAME ONLY
if money is tight go to All Season Tire in Bloomington, they usually sell slightly used tires including winter tires cheap. However, I would do it sooner than later, before everyone else gets on the winter tire band wagon....also try Craigs list.
i was thinking, damn nice bump... http://www.mnsubaru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8995&highlight=problem+tires
So running tires that are the same size, but different models and/or brands, is bad for the car? I am talking, if you didn't care about the performance factor while running the setup. I can't imagine that the engineers at Subaru would let something go out the door that was so critical on tires. I garuntee they design in a safety factor for all the people out there who don't know any better. I would guess that there are a load of people out there running a mix of tires and don't even know its bad. I was doing some basic calculations and came up with this... If one wheel was 25 inches in diameter and the other was 25.25 inches in diameter, the smaller wheel would only do about 8 more revolutions than the larger wheel every minute at 60 mph. So, would it be bad to put your car up in a stand, hold the back tires in place and rotate the front tires 8 times per minute? Effectively it would be the same thing.
A big advantage of winter specific tires is that they allow you to STOP much better as well as go much better. Having winter tires on the front and some all-temperature tires on the back will probably not do much for you....it not potentially make it dangerous....but I don't know. Steve
The really GOOD snow radial tires highly recommend being used in matching sets of four, REGARDLESS of whether the drivetrain is FWD, RWD, or AWD. Many tire retailers will ONLY sell Blizzaks in sets of 4, for example. The reason is handling on slippery surfaces, NOT just acceleration traction. You're better off with four homogeneously slippery tires (when cruising the highway or trying to avoid an accident) than you would be with a grippy frontend and an unpredictable backend (or vice-versa).
i have blizzaks and steel rims for the legacy, very nice tires, but depending upon the conditions they dont allow you to stop as fast, my .02
I just wanted to add that there are many benefits to having snow tires in the winter, and probably the biggest is STOPPING! Consider this even if it was possible or a good idea to use only two winter tires; would the expense out weight the safety of your passengers, yourself or deductable? I have been buying my snow tires from Discount tires online for several years now and for anyting under 16" w/steel rims, its been under $400 shipped. Hey just when everyone is putting their summer cars away for the winter, we're just getting ours out! Enjoy!
regardless of the tire size difference....the traction difference would be a problem. Sy you had 2 snow tires on the front, and 2 summers, or all-seasons on the back, you're on the ice, and you punch it. because it isn't a true 4WD system, the only thing keeping your 2 non-snow tires from spinning, is the LSD system in the center (be it transfer clutches, or viscous coupling..), and that would take quite a bit of life off of it.
how the hell are you going to rotate them? no sorry that sounded bitter. you actualy would be wasting money, if you cant swing a new set of tires hit up 7 or 8 friends and do a spagetti dinner. ask them to float you $3 a plate. do it once a week for a month. buy your new tires.
seriously...try it, and when you bring your car in for tranny work i'll make sure i tell them that you were the idiot that wouldnt listen to reason, transfer clutches on an auto are around 600 dollars in PARTS, tack on at least 1000 in labor...thats 1600 dollars to save 200. on a manaul, a new viscous coupler is around 500 or so, maybe a little less labor...IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO BE SO CHEAP.
I can't believe you'd spend 25 grand on a car and not read the ****ing manual. It says in the manual not to mismatch tires. Discount Tire wont even let you do this. They will tell you no for their own liability. Subaru would assume you would care enough about your investment not to ignore the warnings in the owners manual and botch up your car. I was doing some calculations and I came up with this: Go stick a knife in the disposal of your sink, then turn it on...this will give you the basic idea of what happens when you lock down your rear axle and try to turn the front wheels 8 times. If you figure the average commute to work is about 25 minutes...that is, according to my calculations, 200 extra turns.... SO, every day, I want you to stick a knife in your sink disposal and turn it on for 200 revolutions. Do this twice daily. See how long your disposal lasts and/or your knife. Another fun idea: jack up the front of your car leaving the rear on the ground. Pull the e-brake. Now...try to spin the front wheels 200 times. You can do this at my place if you wish, I'll loan you 4 jackstands...2 to get the front off the ground for the test...and the other two to pick the back end up when you need to swap your tranny.
Please, just buy 4 tires. It's not worth you posting a few weeks later asking for help fixing your car.
I love the reactions I get.... Some people need to settle down on here a little. You give the club a bad look. Just out of curiosity, is any body else a f**ing idiot that didn't read there manual cover to cover like me. We should all be shot...wait...stoned by the mnsubaru club.
well hey you ask a dunb question.. not an issue.. cause really the only dumb question is the one not asked sincerely... but you then argue with the replies... which basically tell you what teh MANUAL (yes the one the subaru engineers allowed out the door) says anyways... if you dont like the answers dont chat back.. read and move on... this is why its called a club.. many different people make it what it is... some flame some dont... but if you think these replies make the club look bad... stay away from nastysocks.com off topic(nasioc) as they are worse then 3000 menstruating women trapped in a room when you ask a silly question... nad dont generalise about the club and its members when you are so new... I could too... but I dont know you so I wont... see how that works... have a great day... ps... save for teh extra 2 tires please...
That's cool, I just don't know where I stand on this (queue going off topic). I'm saying that everyone else is wrong, hell, I don't know what's right. I just want to have an answer with some backing. Why can't I throw my idea in on the topic and then someone use what I said to explain the problem. If you don't want to take the time to explain it and think the question is stupid, don't type anything. I feel like there are so many ideas floating around the net that people just take without question. Ok, how about I change my dumb question..... "How much variation between front and rear tire rotation can be excepted by the center diff without harm?"
Someone with some experience that works in the parts dept. at a Subaru dealership told you "NO NO NO NO and NO." and then went on to detail the damage it can do. Then you obviously went about your business because you had the explaination you needed...oh wait, wrong, you blew off the answer and then blamed the inability to run mismatched tires on the engineers. And nobody said read the manual front to back...but when you go to change the oil or any fluid or anything for that matter for the first time on a vehicle, you had better check the notes in the manual. Or do you go on a forum and ask people how much oil to run, and then when they tell you how much you disregard it...put in 3 quarts instead of 5, and then blame Subaru engineers for making a vehicle that can't run on just 3 quarts of oil. If you want us to give you sugary coated happy answers that fall directly in line with what you want, then let us know now....we'll be happy to tell you to go run mismatched tires and other things that go against what the manual tells you.
Let me just put it this way: there are plenty of reasons a lot of well known tire sellers will not sell snow tires in sets of two. Either one or four, they know why you're buying two: to do something stupid. Just don't do it. Its not like the grip problems aren't bad enough, but there has been more than enough explanation of the mechanical problems you're in for. for some more helpful advice: buy your snow tires ASAP. they wont go on sale for another 6-8 months from now. You can get some decent used sets if you shop around.
7/32's is the threshold iirc. when you replace a tire, if the other 3 has 7/32's or better left, just replace the tire. if the other tires have less than 7'32's left, shave the new one to match. if you do the math, a 7/32's is .21875. that's less than a quarter of an inch.
I'm fairly certain that when my mom had a flat on her RE92s, the tire shop told her 4/32s and Morries mtka subaru told her 2/32s.... 2 things to think about. the circumferance of the tire, which still isn't entirely relavant when using 2 completely different tread compounds (as 3rik already mentioned). and the difference in the traction. if you started pulling ANY lateral g's, the front tires would grip, but the back ones would slip. hello spinout. I can't say the exact amount of variation that the center diff can handle is. but it isn't much. if it were an open diff (like my FT4wd box while unlocked), it wouldn't be nearly as damaging, but the viscous coupler uses heat to prevent slippage. if that coupler were generating heat even while driving straight, the heat would just build up indefinately (at least until things started to get damaged). Theoretically if you had the bigger tires on the back, the coupler might get a rest while cornering, but not much. think of it this way, in the automatics, they use a clutch pack to distribute power to the rear end. if you've got different sized tires on there, it's like letting your clutch drag all the time. letting (more like forcing, but you get the idea) the engine spin just a few hundred rpm's faster than the transmission. how long would your clutch last then? except we're talking about a crucial part of your transmission, not a few hundred dollar clutch kit.
