RIP conrod bearings. Got some questions for the rebuild (sti)

Discussion in 'Modifications And Maintenance' started by Mnelson, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Car: 13 STI hatch.
    Pertinent Modifications: stock turbo, id1000, flex fuel...
    Description of the problem: knock knock, who is it?
    Recent maintenence or modifications: Nope

    Ok, now thats out of the way...

    Connecting rod failure in the STI today. Found a short block built by Jay at real ST Performance. It has 10k on the sb itself with Manley rods, ARP headstuds and weisco pistons. I'm getting it for what sounds like a decent deal from someone I know. SO the point of this thread is to fill in some of the knowledge gaps.

    Edit: Was told it was a "05 sti ej257". When I looked up head gaskets, I see some listed with and without dual AVCS. Since mine has dual, I assumed I would get those head gaskets, but didn't know if the 2008+ 257 has additional oil passages. I would assume not, but its worth asking...

    Edit 2: Found the answer, no differences in the casing, just the heads. Ill end up getting the correct gaskets, just not sure which ones yet.

    I wasn't sure if I should go with an OEM turbo head gasket (Amazon has them listed for $35 each) or if I should look at installing cosworth gaskets instead. Mind you I am still stock turbo and don't plan to upgrade unless there is an issue with my current one. I would assume the gaskets would be better done now so the block isn't disassembled down the road, but I am trying to keep the costs down as I still have a house to put back together.

    I am planning to also pickup a gates timing belt kit. The Advance Auto I work at only sells dayco, but I don't think they are as good of quality as gates from what people have said. Also planning to have the heads resurfaced while they are off the car. Besides belts, plugs, and maybe valve cover gaskets, is there any other items I should consider?

    Edit 3: any value in an upgraded oil pickup or cooler while I have it disassembled?
    Edit 4: Thinking about redoing the clutch, since the chassis has 50k, but that isn't really in the budget. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  2. jmyhre05
    Offline

    jmyhre05 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Do not reuse anything that oil goes through (oil pan, oil pick up, oil pump, and oil cooler). Take the heads to a machine shop to rebuild and clean completely out. Clean out all the cam sprockets.

    If you skip any of that do not expect the new motor to last long! Do not cut corners and just get a OEM complete gasket kit. Will come with everything needed minus the uppipe to turbo and downpipe to turbo gaskets.

    OEM oil components are the best option. Your year sti has the upgraded oil pump already.

    Only use OEM water pumps and thermostats.
     
    readymix, derp, Cotts612 and 2 others like this.
  3. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I ended up grabbing the short block with forged internals this afternoon. Came with its oil pickup, oil pan, and oil pump (05 sti I believe).. Also got a killer b pickup in the deal.

    It looked clean and still had residual oil in cylinder walls. I turned the assembly over a little bit and it felt good. Also turned it the other way and pushed on the pistons. I read you can feel bearing slop when the crank changes direction by doing this.

    I don't know how deep I should clean the new short block. Is it worth tearing the pistons out for inspection/cleaning? I figured I would prime the oil system with cheap 5w30 and change it before firing it up.. Also, should I disassemble the turbo at all?
     
  4. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Wait, isnt the cooler part of the radiator? If thats the case, should I replace the radiator or just clean it? I could order an after market external cooler if needed as well.
     
  5. Krazylegz1485
    Offline

    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Trophy Points:
    173
    I think he's talking about the oil filter "adaptor"/cooler? Coolant runs through it, but is separate from the oil. That's my guess, at least.
     
  6. jmyhre05
    Offline

    jmyhre05 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Yep, oil cooler has tons of baffles and spots for metal to hide. Just replace it. Turbo just flush out while it's out like the dipstick tube, avcs lines, baffle, and other misc oil items.

    Used engines are always a risk unless you know the builder and users complete history. Break in, clearances, and other stuff factor into engine longevity.
     
    joebush44 and Mnelson like this.
  7. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I could always pull it apart and recheck tolerances... Or send it to a reputable shop who's known to build good motors. Cough cough. Otherwise I'm just gunna cross my fingers and run what I have. Need to get to work and there's to much snow to get my bike out of storage.

    Damn Minnesota spring
     
  8. derp
    Offline

    derp Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Skip Gates for the timing equipment.
     
  9. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Got the stock block almost out.. Huge thank you to @JasonoJordan for all of his help.

    Durring disassembly, we found a lot of moisture in the aos and a huge collection of yellow "oil whip cream" through the system. My best assessment is that the huge swings in temperature plus the short commutes in the morning were not allowing the moisture to evaporate. It smelt like ethanol so I would assume the e85 was blowing by as well. I may have been too rich in my 40-60% ethanol range so I'm chalking this one up as failure on my part.

    The turbo was in good shape and I didn't see any oil on the inlet side. The outlet had some collecting in the intercooler. I also found a bunch on my intercooler as well but that looks to be the fault of a poorly seated blowby sensor hose.

    Tldr: short commute on e85 in Minnesota = bad. I'll send an oil analysis out to verify my findings.


    As for disassembly... All of the bellhousing bolts were a pita to get off. There are two bolts just above the axles that need to come out but I can't seem to get leverage to do so. Would popping the axles out be the easiest method?
     
  10. curly2k3
    Offline

    curly2k3 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    607
    Trophy Points:
    348
    Sorry to hear man, feel bad about joking about this being inevitable on Friday now.
     
  11. derp
    Offline

    derp Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    248
    I mean, it's a turbo car that was modified. It sucks, but Mike IS fortunate that he's pretty ****ing handy and has access to other smart people to help.

    Keep at it, let me know if you need help
     
    tangledupinblu likes this.
  12. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Not like your joke broke the car, and it wasn't that you were wrong either. Unless you emptied your joke into my car through the oil filler.

    I'm not suprised on the if, but a little shocked on the when. The car ran so well I couldn't believe it when it happened.
     
  13. joebush44
    Offline

    joebush44 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,089
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Damn man, always sucks to see another one go down. Hope you can get it back together and on the road quickly!

    This x 100...been there, done that. In my case it wasn't even a "used" shortblock, but a freshly built one (from an unknown source).

    Popping the axles out will make it infinitely easier to access those two lower belhousing nuts, but I wouldn't say it's the easiest method (having to pull two front axles). I've always had luck using a combination of a couple of extensions and a swivel, possibly two swivels (extension/swivel/extension/swivel/socket)...probably not the most efficient way, but it works.
     
    Mnelson likes this.
  14. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Block is out. Swivels worked great. Thanks guys for the tips. Now I'll do an oil analysis on what's in the block before I rip the heads off and send them out.

    I know of a few places to have them done but I'm open to suggestions. I'd prefer to have a professional clean them and check all of the cam bearings and seals but I'm willing to do it myself if it's super spendy.
     
  15. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    1)Metro Engine in Roseville/Arden Hills/New Brighton. See Dave.

    2)DG Auto in St. Paul. See Pat.

    3)Headwerks(not sure of location).

    These are the 3 main ones that come up. I’ve used Dave at Metro and was very happy with the results. Jordan(TMF) uses Pat at DG and has had very good luck with anything engine related there. Headwerks i hear is spendy, but does awesome work
     
    Mnelson likes this.
  16. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
  17. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I'll most likely check dg out since they are close to me. Depends on how deep of a clean they do too..
     
    tangledupinblu likes this.
  18. Krazylegz1485
    Offline

    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Trophy Points:
    173
    I'd personally recommend letting somebody else install your cam and crank seals. I feel like I cleaned the hell out of them, and did it as carefully as possible. Already leaking... Definitely paying for it to be done next time.
     
  19. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Leaning that direction... Metro engine is a month out, and dg didn't answer when i first tried. I'm probably going to have to wait to get that in. That being said, it gives me time to work on my house :p
     
    Krazylegz1485 likes this.
  20. jmyhre05
    Offline

    jmyhre05 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Lloyd's cylinder head in Rogers does good work and quick turn around. We use them for most stuff now a days that we do not do in house.
     
    tangledupinblu likes this.
  21. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73

    Got the heads off tonight..they looked pretty good until I tipped the cam covers upside down and water came pouring out. Called dg earlier and they told me they use motorwroks..

    Guess I'll chat Lloyd's up tomorrow to see their turn around. They are a bit of a trip for me so Im not entirely ruling out murgics out. :p
     
  22. JasonoJordan
    Offline

    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Ive never seen a motor with as much water in places it shouldnt be as I have with yours when ive been helping you.



     
  23. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Corn booze? Why so much water bruh? That thing an Ark?
     
  24. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Must have really pissed someone off.
    :frantic:

    I got the Blackstone labs analysis ready to be mailed out and I stumbled on the cars earlier reports. They showed high counts of silver in both samples that I sent in (May and July 2017). They had thought the consistency may have been normal and told me to keep an eye on oil pressure, which I did.

    Maybe this is why I wasn't super surprised. I'll still check ring gap because I believe the water issue was from blowby...
    :facepalm:
     
  25. MrBlue
    Offline

    MrBlue Active Member

    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    73
    So was this failure due to the tune, or E85 and short commute?
    My plan was to go E85 as Jesse suggested but I only go 3-4 miles to work, Would I be better off going with a regular gas tune?
     
  26. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I would guess it's a combo of things. I may have been a little rich on the e85 side. But Blackstone had reports of high silver (bearings) last year. The moisture was most likely due to everything combined with the commute..perfect storm.

    I wouldn't be too worried about going e85, especially if devin tunes it. I've only had the car for a year and a half and I learned all of the tuning myself in that time. The car wasn't perfect nor am I.
     
    MrBlue likes this.
  27. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Depends, how quick do you want your 3-4 mile commute to be?:D

    If you want to squeeze every ounce of power out, corn booze. If you want a moderately fast car, but aren’t concerned with squeezing her dry, i would go 93 octane.
     
    Krazylegz1485 and MrBlue like this.
  28. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    I’ve never understood why anyone would go e85 unless they were trying to pull as much power as possible. Or is there some other benefit that i’m unaware of? Lack of availability isn’t beneficial by any means, so I figured that “mo powahz” was the only motive.
     
    Krazylegz1485 likes this.
  29. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73

    I appreciate that e85 is a "creatable" and cleaner energy source. It also adds a ton of torque which is more important in daily driving than hp. I tried to add more low end torque in the tune and left the top end close to stock.

    Ethanol in its natural state has more volume of liquid per ignition, which keeps the cylinder cool. My goal was to leverage corn to prevent ringlands (usually fail at high heat)

    Flex fuel prevents the availability portion. It also gives you options to run blend where 93 or even good 91 isnt available.
     
    tangledupinblu and MrBlue like this.
  30. MrBlue
    Offline

    MrBlue Active Member

    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    73
    There's an E85 pump in town so not too concerned with that, cooler cyl temps and more torque is the main draw for me. No 93 in town leaves me with 91 or E85
     
  31. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Lol, gotcha. I went from a 2.0L to a 2.5L, the torque increase was substantial. I never thought of adding even more torque. 300 was plenty for my daily driving! Keeping the motor cooler seems like a sensible enough reason
     
  32. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I also netted better fuel economy at 20-30% because you can lean the mixture out without knocking. When I was playing with economy, i could baby it to something like 29mpg bring my mile per $ lower than straight pump gas. (something like 10.5 miles per $)
     
    MrBlue and tangledupinblu like this.
  33. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Corn booze=smart guys! That sounds too mathy and sciencey for me!:p
     
    Krazylegz1485 likes this.
  34. MrBlue
    Offline

    MrBlue Active Member

    Likes Received:
    355
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Insert "Devintuned" here!
     
    tangledupinblu and Krazylegz1485 like this.
  35. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Funny factoid: Devin Tuned used to be called D-tuned.:D Changed for obvious reasons me tinks.
     
    Krazylegz1485, Mnelson and MrBlue like this.
  36. Krazylegz1485
    Offline

    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Trophy Points:
    173
    All these guys driving Subaru's and going to JM for the D. Perhaps this lesbian association was a cover the whole time?
     
    MrBlue and tangledupinblu like this.
  37. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Definitely cyl 3 that's bad. I haven't gotten the piston out yet but I can tell the AOS was returning oil (in this case, water) right on top of the connecting rod. So I'm still not sure if I'm going to put the AOS back on or if I should return back to stock or possibly slap a catch can at the bottom of the AOS instead of dumping it back into the block. Maybe @jmyhre05 would know the best route?


    However, the heads are in the shop and should be back soon. Can't wait to get the AWD fun car back on the road right when the snow melts. :p
     
  38. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Which AOS if you don’t mind me asking?
     
  39. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    IAG


    Also, unrelated. Not sure if the ACT HBSS (Street) and ACT StreetLite flywheeel is worth the $$, I bet I could get away with putting the stock clutch back on too if i really wanted to cheap out... Thoughts?
     
  40. derp
    Offline

    derp Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Again you don't need an AOS on a street car.

    ACT utch and flywheel were great in the legacy.
     
  41. JasonoJordan
    Offline

    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    298
    As you know the ACT setup was also great in my WRX
     
  42. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Ended up ordering it last night so it will get here on time. I was more worried about the reviews I read of the chatter never getting better over time.

    What I wasn't committed on buying last night was the Airpump deletes. RSD wants $55 for two small chunks of aluminum.. You'd think it was made of gold.
     
  43. JasonoJordan
    Offline

    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I never had a chatter issue with my ACT. Some stuff you pay for what you get. I do not know if the air-pump delete stuff is one of them things or not.
     
  44. tangledupinblu
    Offline

    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    6,202
    Trophy Points:
    573
    Have you checked with Matt at Aluminati for the deletes?
     
  45. Mnelson
    Offline

    Mnelson Active Member

    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I don't think the value of the blocks are worth it and no gains besides less to assemble. But I'm kinda lazy so there's that. However I'd have to retune all of the crank and warm up maps and ain't nobody got time for that.

    Not yet but I should.
     
    Krazylegz1485 and tangledupinblu like this.

Share This Page