RS Motors review

I recently brought my Subaru down to RS to have it re-tuned after changing the wastegate spring from a 13lb to 19lb spring. When I get there he didn't even have me booked so I waited there for 1.5 hours before my car was even put onto the Dyno. After he did about three pulls he noticed it had a misfire around 5400rpms and stopped tuning it. Ron didn't even offer to change out the plugs to see if that would cure the problem, instead he pushed me out the door and charged me $250 to inform me that I have a misfire. My question is wouldn't I get a check engine light if I had a misfire? When I got home I put my Snap-On scanner on and no misfire codes, no codes showing the coils being weak, no signs of anything. In my opinion I think it has a bad spot in the tune. I did pull the plugs and they looked fine, replaced them anyways. So essentially I was treated like a third world citizen by the owner of RS and paid for a job that never got completed. If you plan on taking your car to them I would strongly advise against it as this is the worst service I have ever received in my life, and he's extremely arrogant on top of that. Anyways that's my 2 cent's went there on a referral and learned me lesson the hard way.

Note from the mods: see update here.

 

Ron is a busy guy and these days seems to mostly focus on Evo's. A lot of people swear by RS and they are for sure a good shop and know a lot about subaru's...but I had a similar experience as you the first time there a few years ago and never went back.
There are lots of subie people in the cities, find another tuner that you are happy with their communication.

 

Oh also, a misfire will make your CEL flash. I am kinda surprised you don't have any codes but it is possible Ron cleared them when he was done tuning.

 

I have put 200 miles on it since then and still no check engine light.

 

Any recommended tuners local that are good and considerate? I have been trying to contact NF, but it appears they are hard to get a hold of.

 

DB Performance for the best work and support in town!

 

Yeah I have been there previously just to talk and they seem very personable. I did hear that their tuners left and started a different shop is that a rumor, can anyone confirm? Also DB is a lot closer to where I live which was my first thought of where to go after RS ruined my week.

 

NF is well regarded also. (to my knowledge)
I haven't had tuning done but they did a good job on my front brakes for a good rate.
I'm sure others (the more hardcore) will chime in quick.

 

Go to NF, you won't be disappointed. You probably might want to wait till after Proving Grounds 2 is done and over with, as they are probably quite busy right now.

 

Shane won't fix your car on the dyno either. That is not what their time is allotted for. I also was sent home with a misfire, NOT their job. You can schedule work from them to fix your issues, but on the dyno, it's YOUR responsibility to bring them a fully functional car.
We've all been there.

 

nf for sure, but like someone mentioned, if there is an event, they are dedicating their time to get their cars ready for that event. i was lucky to get in because they had previously serviced our car even tho they were busy trying to get theirs done too during and upcoming event. they know their stuff and will not overcharge you.

gl with whomever you choose.

 

I'm just curious as to why I'm not getting a check engine light, I guess I will change the plugs and see if it goes away, and if it doesn't I move onto coil packs. Thanks for all the input guys I think I will get down the NF after proving grounds.

 

I saw this title and went "oohhhhh ****". Lets let the pissing wars begin! But I'll use this opportunity to come clean with my opinions about our local shops before this thread spins out of control and/or gets locked.

I'm probably the most easy going person in the world when it comes to not expecting things from people. To the point it's bad. I've done business with MAP, DB and RS quite a bit. Hell I was just at DB 30 minutes ago to say hi to Shane and see if they had any gold insulator tape. But I digress. This post will probably piss a lot of people off but it's all fact, even if it's one sided.

DB Performance:

• Shane has gone out of his way to help me when my car was on a dyno, my first Subaru build did the old faithful routine when my mishimoto cap blew off ON HIS DYNO. He let me source one down the street and continued tuning. Granted he probably had the time for me to do so.
• I love Shane, he's a quiet dude, but he's a good guy deep down and I want to think he cares about the tunes he does. There's been a few cases where we found his tunes were a bit off.
• I had DB do transmission work on my IX MR, it didn't go well. They replaced the clutch disc and my transmission stopped disengaging. I had to pay 1/2 Labor and 100% parts to get the correct disc in, this was the last time I did business with them.

RS Motors:

• Ronnie, when in a good mood and not busy (which isn't often anymore), while tuning will explain things to you and take his time to make sure you're happy.
• When they get it done, they do great work and it's top notch.
• His tunes are pretty spot on.
• I had a friend that had a failure on his 4G63 a month or so later and Ronnie came and got it, brought it back to his shop and basically covered the entire thing because he determined it was his fault.
• The problem with RS is they're too busy, he's got other priorities (lets just say) and Ronnie isn't very good at project management. It took my STi engine rebuild/install at least 2 months, I actually lost count it could be more.
• I personally haven't felt like I've been a priority and I have a lot of friends that are on both sides of the fence. Either you're in his click or you're not and I feel like I've been extremely loyal to him and his shop.
• I had my Evo X built there too and it was the same story. I actually had to eventually be an ass about it to get it done by the time I was back from vacation (2 or so months later). We won't go into the catastrophe in detail for sake of my sanity.
• The final thing I'll say about RS is his communication is TERRIBLE. Example: I had to email him over and over and over to finally get a time to drop my car off, he made the time for me which was awesome and nice of him. However he said drop it off Friday (no time was ever said). I thought "drop it off Friday we'll work on it over the weekend" type deal because he said I would need to drop it off for a few days. He had allotted time that morning apparently and didn't bother telling me that or calling me when I was late. I would have told my boss "peace bro I have to get a tune" but I called him at 1PM to see how late they would be there and I find out that he had been waiting on me that morning and didn't have the time to do injector install etc.
  • I will add this sub text. He tried to make it work but forgot that I had an injector install, after that he basically said he couldn't help me. So he at least tried to make it work, the last email I exchanged with him was "Ya it's tough over here being over booked everyday. Sorry."
  • Clearly this could have been avoided many ways and maybe some of it's on me, but the original portion of this post is obviously due to Ronnie's communication lacking. He could have handled the situation in a much friendlier manner and talked it through, if this is indeed how it went down.

MAPerformance:

• They are a good shop and Chris Carey is a good guy, I've known them since the mid 2000's when they were super small.
• There's not too much to say about shop work because they mostly got out of it, but if things don't go well it's not a comfortable situation.
• Their prices are top notch and they make sure they take care of locals and they obviously care about their customer base.

Summary:
I get it... running a company takes a lot of courage and making hard calls sometimes. You can't let customers (especially in a car enthusiast market) walk all over you or you wouldn't last long. But I own a company that's thriving because we have awesome customer service. If there's something that's our fault we make sure we take care of it. There's not fighting, there's no bull ****, it's just taking care of them and taking responsibility for our actions, but that doesn't mean we let people walk all over us. Time management and handling projects goes a long way and it's the easiest way to get into trouble with a business like a performance shop. MAP even had issues with that back in the day. It's part of growing pains and managing shop burn rates.


I don't have any personal problems with anyone at any of the shops, I respect that business is business. Perhaps some of this is my fault too, I don't disregard that. I'm obviously still looking for a shop that makes it a priority to do a good job and cover their work when working on my car. Someday I may find one, but it really hasn't happened yet entirely. I've heard good/bad things about NF, I have not personally worked with them. But I have known Fuji for over 10 years and he obviously knows quite a bit about Subaru's I just prefer dyno tunes.

 

Good call.

 

I think that might be Jordan at SM Speed in Blane? They have an AWD dyno which is nice But to throw more scuttlebutt around, I thought I remember hearing that he done blew some engines over the years? Someone please set me straight if I'm thinking of the wrong person.

 

I personally have had a great experience with rs, the night before my tune I had an exhaust leak(i thought it was off of the turbo to the downpipe but it was the dp to cat back section.) emailed him and he said come at 8am(my tune was at 10am) got there, they through it up on the lift fixed it in about 30 minutes then threw it on the dyno and gave me a nice clean smooth tune. Super reasonable prices and Ron was a very nice guy and showed me his shop GTR before I took off. And this was all done last August right before the pg2k14.2 and he for sure was busy.

 

@Typhoon213, one thing I'll say is that the area has a limited number of good AWD import tuners, and so their time is extremely booked up. Ronnie (and other tuners) would probably be happy to charge you to diagnose and fix the issue, except that a) the dyno time following your appointment is probably already allocated to someone else and b) getting these specialist shops to diagnose and fix simple issues is going to be expensive - they can earn more money tuning and installing performance parts etc, and so will charge you a higher rate to do repair work in order to compensate for the hours that they could have been making more money doing that kind of work.

Making sure your car is mechanically running right before going to a tune will make for a better experience for all parties

 

And everyone, let's keep this thread civil or it will be shut down.Thanks!

 

I will not suggest that place to anyone. To keep it short, he basically just raped my buddy when tuning his evo.. 700$ (<-No that isn't a typo) tune and he only got one map he went in there wanting 2 tunes, one for e85 and one for 93.. All he got was the e85 map and now there's issues with that tune and Jordan wants 200$ more to fix his mistakes....

 

+1 for Nuke and all of the NF crew. Very friendly bunch that do good work for a fair price. I would wait to schedule something with them. You won't be disappointed.

 

NF for me!

 

IMHO things would go much smoother if the tuning shops hired someone dedicated to answering the phone/emails/FB and managing their schedule.

 

That person also needs to get the correct knowledge to forward to the person receiving the tune... Just saying, I got the full story about the sm speed thing today and now I'm even more opposed to sending someone there.

 

Had the same issues trying to get a hold of RS motors. Heard some other things that I won't repeat because I have no first-hand knowledge.. Will agree that if you're not in the clique, you're not likely to get their attention.

Have nothing but good things to say about Shane @ DB's tuning. Agree that bringing a fully functional car to the dyno is your responsibility, not the tuners. I can't speak to the shop work that DB does because I have never had work done there.

I had a tune by Nuke at NF, didn't have any issues with it. The folks I've interacted with at NF have always been pleasant and helpful. Haven't really had major work done there, so can't comment.

MAP, well, I guess you can ask them where the hottest prostitutes hang out. They also don't work on customer cars any longer, because selling parts makes them more money.

I've had good experiences with both Morries Minnetonka and White Bear Subaru for maintenance/diagnostic work.

 

I live by those immortal words of Bosco from LegacyGT.com...stay stock, stay happy.

 

I like the guy's sig that says 'if you like your car, NEVER DRIVE IT'.

 

no comment here, but I will not go back to RS unless there are no other options.

 

I'll pitch in my 2 cents here, having experience with NF and RS. Ultimately, I'm happy with both. They both do good work, and Nuke and Ronnie each have taken the time to talk to me and answer my questions. They both are extremely busy running their business and working on cars though, so it's not always easy to communicate. That's the only real downside from a customer standpoint, in my experience. Would recommend either shop without hesitation.

 

Not sure if they have changed over the years. My 07 was rebuilt by Matt and so was my tranny. The day the engine was tuned the tranny went and we put it up on the lift and found the carnage. Matt started pulling it within the hour. While I can honestly say I am not in "their click", I was treated with respect and had good customer service. When I came back for my tune it was an eye opening experience. Just after the tune I began to develop a misfire. I called and talked with him, made an appointment and he spent about an hour of his time (unpaid) driving with me attempting to fix the tune. The misfire was not his fault. It was an issue with the car. I felt he went beyond his normal requirements. I have had nothing but respect and good things to say about them.

 

That is a true story, as I learned recently.

 

That's too bad, he seemed at home there.

Asset is putting it lightly to me. He was the only Subaru tech that I could see. Everyone else was evo lovers, no hate just saying.

 

@tangledupinblu touched on it already, but RS as a host for the 10 yr. event was wonderful. They were gracious hosts, and it was a blast to be there.

I worked a lot with NF a few summers ago when my WRX went down. Nuke and Roger were exceptional (and you can read more about this in other threads for full details). They continued to help out with various parts of the car for very reasonable prices until I sold it. I have a lot of respect for Nuke, Fuji, Roger, and the rest of NF not only for the art in their craft, but for their mission and contributions to the community.

I'm sorry to hear about this experience, and I think that you have to remember that not every experience, with a vehicle or person, will be positive. Good luck! Modding is an adventure on many levels... (and that's why I'm with Pillboy with my FXT for the foreseeable future...)

 

As a couple others have pointed out it is the customers responsibility to have the car ready for the tune. Ron is a very nice guy, very knowledgeable and very busy. He usually has at least 2 tunes booked each day and a month and a half out, sorry to hear about your experience but Shane has done the exact same thing as Ron kicking someone off a dyno over a simple boost leak. But Ron and Shane both do care, it is hard to keep up, and like someone mentioned you can schedule to get this misfire diagnosed, spark plugs on a Subaru are not a 20 min job especially on a hot engine... you could have even asked to leave it there in sure. Nobody is perfect and all 3 NF DB and RS are all very busy and booked out, even I have been working tons of hours to keep up and I know those guys do too, it's a specialty shop and I'm sure you noticed outside the cars waiting to get in, don't let this bother you, Ron is very good at what he does and a very nice guy.

 

Also RS does have a hard line to call, they answer as much as they can, sometimes that's a way to speak directly with them.

 

I wish shops are allowed to do customer reviews. Andrew was already in a bad mood because we were running late and had a mix up with scheduling. Not a big and happens often. I'm not gonna unstrap a car off the Dyno just because the next guy is there. I'm committed to finish a tune that I started.

His appointment was at 11am and I got done with the car on the Dyno at 11:18 and went on with setting up his car on the Dyno.

From the first pull the car acted like it had a misfire right when it hit peak boost. Look at the logs to see if it's something in the tune, Check Dyno graph, made some changes to try and eliminate where the misfire is coming from. Did a few more pulls while pinpointing where the misfire can be from.

I asked when the plugs where changed. With some kind of attitude I was told there were just replaced. I asked when he says last year. Then later found out they have about 20k miles on them. From here on I recommended to get the plugs replaced first, then if the misfires is still there try different coils. Also added a boost leak test since the car also has an issue with holding boost the one run it went thru the misfire and ended the run around 5700rpm.

Here is where I get the shaft. He started questioning every suggestion I had. Not about his car but about what I was suggesting. He told me it should throw a misfire code when it misfires. DO YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THIS? A car doesn't just throw a code because it had an ignition break up. He assumes I'm hiding something because it doesn't throw a code. He gets irritated. He questions that "it's odd". That it never misfired before. I told him it only did it at full load full boost and ask if he had driven it like that on the street. He continued to ignore every suggestion I had at that point since I was now the liar and making up a misfire. I made all the suggestions, he kept mentioning he can do all the work. Then flames me for not suggesting I should change his spark plugs. I was wrong for not asking him to pay me to change the spark plugs I guess. He gets charged for the amount of time spent on the Dyno diagnosing his car. He felt that he should not have to pay for any of the work performed.

Andrew did everything he could to question my honesty and knowledge of anything car related.

I was taught that when someone throws you a rock, you throw a bread back. This time I picked up that rock and threw it right back. This is what I get.

Thank you that's my side of the story.

 

Ronnie, I can't speak for the other mods but I wouldn't have a problem with you (and other vendors) posting "customer reviews", aka your side of the story, in these cases -- as long as it's kept civil and fact-based. It's always good to hear both sides before rushing to judgment.

As I'm sure you've seen over the years, the dyno can uncover engine behavior that wasn't noticed on the street - the dyno can hit loads and operating conditions that are rarely if ever encountered on the road, and hold them instead of ripping right through them which gives more time for odd behavior to become obvious.

 

Thanks for giving your side of the story Ronnie, it's too bad you had to defend your reputation from a know-it-all who just wants to complain loudly. There's a right way to go about things, and a wrong way.

If a customer has an issue with a company, step number one is to attempt to address the issue directly with the company. If that doesn't provide you with the satisfaction you're looking for, move on. Now, the OP gives a version of events that makes it sound like this is what he tried to do, but airing your perceived dirty laundy in public doesn't benefit anyone.

 

After roughly 70 e-mails between Ron and I we both decided that we were being ignorant together one certain things, yes my car was not ready as I should have put plugs in it, and yes he agreed that his communication is poor and he is very busy. I will say that I'm glad I stuck with it after bickering with him through 70 e-mail's I think we are now on the same page and both understand where and what we were doing wrong. We are both very blunt people and our personalities clashed because of this. We were giving the mixed emotions to each other on what he was telling me and what I was asking in return, essentially he thought I was questioning him or saying he was wrong, when really I was trying to wrap all this information in my head so I didn't have this happen again. Like I said Ron and I have resolved the issue, but I will still say he should have someone in chard or scheduling as that would make his life a lot easier IMOP, I'm not going to sit here and tell him how to run his business. I was not trying to start any sort of war between shops I was just simply stating how I felt after that day and anytime your car isn't functioning right it's not a good day. Once again Ron and I have worked this out and realized we both had issues of our own personally that we had to fix in order to co-exist together.

 

If you will read my post above we both have worked things out mutually, I don't know if Ron want's to chime in here and mention that as that's up to him.

 

Here's the sm speed review @EricS
http://www.evomn.net/showthread.php?20319-SM-Speed-A-Review