25+ dead :eek4: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting http://abcnews.go.com/
At first I thought of Virginia tech in MN, but it's Virginia. It will never stop.....will it!?!?! So sad :emo: :emo: :emo: :emo: :emo: :emo:
So glad I am out of HS and College. Someone used to tick you off and you give them a beat down, now you take a bunch of innocents out. What a bunch of pansies.
There were two seperate shootings two hours apart. The second one happened right when the college was sending out notice that it happened.
Messed up, man. Anyone that goes onto a school campus with a gun is...there arent even words to describe how vile that person is. He's regretting it right now though I'm sure. Hell is a hot place.
whats the possibility that two seperate shooters whould pick the same day to attack? Not likely, I'm sure it was the same person that did both shootings. And those 30 people could have easily over took the shooter instead of standing there waiting to die, I sure as hell would have fought to the death. The news reports said those who ran were only wounded, those that did nothing died, very sad.
I find it very sad that people seem to do little to protect one another or stop him. Not saying that anything he did is right or what teh victims did was wrong, but what does it say about our society when people were not willing to sacrafice and risk there own lives to save others? I am just sad about everything.
I would have at least tried a chair throwing. As someone who has been shot at I can tell you it isn't very fun, although at first it doesn't even seem like it is real. Very sad.
there is many things wrong with the whole picture. The system let everyone down multiple time. first off, he is not a us citizen, but yet, he was able to purchase 2 guns in 30 days. Well, he was not supposed to be able to purchase a gun from a store. yet he did. In VA you must wait 30 days or more to purchase 2 hand guns. he purchased 2 in less than 30 days. Since that campus is gun free, even if campus security was there, all they could do would be throw a chair. My heart goes out to all the victims because the general population has become a bunch sissies. Russ
^^^ I agree Russ... Terrible... More background and info on Mr. Cho and some of the "reasons" for justifying his terrible act..... Nothing like chaining the hall doors shut while ensuing on 15 to 20 minutes and spine-chilling, enraged, senseless killing! Sometimes you wish these people weren't so weak and cowardly to take other peoples lives before taking their own... If they can't handle life then just end their own hopeless, waste of a life! ______________________________________________ ""The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. Quoting an "investigative source," the newspaper said Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women, and that he was taking medication for depression. The Tribune also reported that Cho's family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who attended Princeton University. Cho and his family came to the United States in 1992, when he was 8 years old, and he was a legal permanent resident. Law enforcement officials told ABCNews.com that Cho bought his first gun, a Glock 9mm handgun, on March 13; they say he bought his second weapon, a 22-caliber handgun, within the last week. The serial numbers on both guns had been filed off, sources said. ABC News also reported that sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall were also found inside a Virginia Tech dorm."" _________________________________________________ Impossible to put ourselves in the victims shoes, but just imagine someone walking into your classroom, while opening fire, shooting anyone and everyone within range... Not to sound like a coward myself but I'd be looking for the first cover I could find, and I can't blame the other students for doing the same until the shooting was over... Terrible stuff folks, just terrible.... I'll be praying for their families! Marc
The fact that he is Asian and that he came to the States at the age of 8 is just mumbo-jumbo. That is not anything relevant to why this tradgedy happened and how it could be used to prevent it from happening. What that information is is what the media discloses to create drama and get ratings, because it's just that: people love that **** and they like to hear of **** like that. ("****" used for lack of words) It creates negative bias that needs to stay off of the subject. I believe that with a person of his mental state and poor judgement of life, there would've been no chance that he could've been helped or those who've died would have been saved. For one, society can't prevent tradgedies like this from happening because it violates certain rights of individuals. People are allowed to buy guns to use for defense and other non-life threatening reasons but there's little to regulate it otherwise. Secondly, it's not a continuous occurence and security jobs are boring. Authority (especially security gaurds) become lazy because of how boring their jobs are and it doesn't help the fact that they love to eat doughnuts (generalizing here. hahaha). My condolences to all those who died and were affected from this cruel manslaughter.
Wow! PRA4SNO, dude, while I may arguably be vile . .. I carry a gun on and near a college campus quite often (I am not a student, so only bound by the same rules that apply everywhere else). It has nothing to do with my vileness and certainly not evil intent. I just believe that self preservation is my God given right and duty. Had the campus allowed citizens their second amendment rights, it is entirely possible that the shooter might have had a drastically smaller death toll. The last time there was a shooting of this magnitude, it was armed civilians dumping suppressive fire on the sniper (Mr. Whitman) that allowed a cop to safely make his way into position to kill the sniper. Had VT allowed civilian carry, the death toll might not have been nearly as high. It would still be tragic, but there'd be a few more survivors and a few less dead. Because of anti-gun rules on campus & in other places so posted . . . psychopaths know they can go in and it is like shooting fish in a barrel, they know they can go to these victim disarmament zones and nobody will return fire, until they psycho has nearly satiated his need for blood.
sorry I have yet to see a gun jump up and shoot someone... you could have 300 guns sitting in a room and noone would get hurt untill some ******* with no moral fibre and full of self hate pulls the trigger at someone else... although I dont necessarily agree with the way pra4snow put his words, i know he personally wouldnt want anyone to go to hell, he is just stating a fact.. this person was a vile person.. not cause he had a gun, but in the way he used it... on INNOCENT people... unfortunately the world is full of people without hope and they resolve to this sort of crap thinking it is a way to go out, only to never realise or feel the impact of their bad decisions... I dont condone suicide cause it is never the answer and leaves more of a mess then you are in already, but if you are gonna shoot yourself do it without doing what this prick did... many people are reeling and hurting from the shock and unbelief of this tradgedy... it is sad.. gun control is NOT a solution, as unless they figure out a way to stop morons getting their hands on one.. (ie: Sylvestor Stallone aka Judge Dredd), and the fingerprint / dna approving gun.... this senseless acts of anger, hopelessness and vile act of violence will never stop... sorry to say.. but its true... and it is only gonna get worse... i wish I could carry a gun.. I am NOT a citizen, but I dont think I would pull it out and go HOLLYWOOD gun battle diving over tables, shooting through walls with the bad guy... but who can truly say how they would react, unless you have been in that situation or have had training ie MARINES etc... I would like to think if I had the choice and chance the ******* shooting people would be the one going down at the pull of my trigger... we can all sit here and try to figure it out... fact is we live in a fallen world with evil people who have no thought about others regardless of whether he wasa asian, black, white, mexican, Aussie, or RAY... he was a lost soul with no regard for others and their families it will be this way till the end... all we can do is pray that those close will grieve how they need, and heal with time....
Won't even comment on "who cares". I have a hard time believing that our college campuses would be better off with less restrictive gun laws. I went to one of our nations larger campuses and can only imagine what would happen if people were toting guns to class. The extreme pressures that coincide with college today are just enough to push the ever so sensitive college student into a emotional roller coaster...I don't know how many suicides there were the year I went to school, but most were jumping from the dorm window...not total mayhem. I'm fine with having stable folks carrying hand guns, but I don't think the answer to school shootings is to allow more guns on campus...I just don't see how that's going to fix the problem. damn, I told myself I wouldn't chime in on this one...
Rexwagon, with all due respect, your level of ignorance astounds me. You are not invincible. Do you only love and care those who are close to you? I agree with 1fastwagon: legalized guns at school is wrong in many ways. A school is a learning institution, not a glocking farm. The attitudes that go on at campus sometimes can go as far as beating someone up, but it shouldn't be given additional fuel by allowing weapons at school.
college kids with their rifles in their dorms, or walking around with a glock at your side sitting in a class, or at work is absurd. Imagine the gun theft rate at schools. Imagine the distraction of some anti social kid walking around with a hand gun and on anti depressents and acting odd and not being able to do anything about it because its his right to be walking around with it. Imagine sitting next to someone in a classroom that has a gun visable on them, at how distracting that would be for a class room, and seeing that while your taking a test. Would you be wondering if they are going to fail the test and pull it? Murder is a fact of life. The constitution does not say we have the right to bare firearms. Why draw the line at that then? The reason we dissallow people to cary firearms on campuses is because if we allow people, then you can not dissallow someone until they commit an act of violence. Yes, ANYONE can conseal a weapon. But we can not let this american tendency to believe we must live in fear each day and prepare for the worst everyday consume us. That is what carrying a gun does. It makes others afraid and wonder why they arent having their gun on them. Westerns show that in a lawless land, you needed to protect yourself with a gun, to demand a level of respect that you can defend yourself. Its the threat level over the need to use. Apply that to a university and it makes everyone afraid of everyone. Your almost all strangers there, not some close community of people earning a level of respect that they will not use it wrongly. Another thing about guns is their sheer ability to kill so many so quickly. If I wanted to kill 1 person, I could do that any number of ways quite easily. A gun, makes it so you can kill 9 people a clip. They are amazing peices of destructive machinery. I am no stranger to them, I grew up with them, and I truly understand how easily they kill, repeatedly, accuratly, quickly. Topics like this are a polorized as most things, like religion, politics, and both sides give their reasons, and both are right, and both are wrong, which makes for such great debate. Let us not take others views as personal attacks on a site where turbo size can get heated up LOL! I often think on my views about this and go, ya know, I would like to know I can defend myself when the movie Red Dawn becomes a reality! Or when we have to fight the big brother USA when its computers come alive and declare war on us! I have friends that work at a sister university by the one where this happened and had that twinge of fear for their safety. (I didnt want to post on this either, how easily it just happens!)
I hope you know that it is illegal to carry a gun on campuses. Does not matter if you are a student or not. It is a law not a rule. Sure hope you have a permit too. They teach you that in all handgun classes.
Actually, it is not illegal. The prohibition on carry extends from preschools to highschools & stops there. Institutions of higher learning are not included in that clause of the law. Grounds can't be posted, nor can parking lots . . . buildings can, and I don't violate that. It just seems a nice place to walk my dog & of course I am a good citizen and always clean up after my pet. Knowing the law is the first step to not being violated by it.
walking your dog is that dangerous that you feel the need to constantly be strapped? Get a bigger and meaner dog if you really feel that threatened.
Actually, it is illegal for anyone to carry on University property, except in a parking lot or parking garage. Notes from here.. It is also illegal to carry and any University of Minnesota public sporting event. Signs are posted at all of the arena's.
Actually, it is not illegal. The prohibition on carry extends from preschools to highschools & stops there. Institutions of higher learning are not included in that clause of the law. Grounds can't be posted, nor can parking lots . . . buildings can, and I don't violate that. It just seems a nice place to walk my dog & of course I am a good citizen and always clean up after my pet. Knowing the law is the first step to not being violated by it. From MN Department of Public Safety FAQ Though this excerpt from the FAQ is simplified, the letter of the law specifies the first three items as pertaining to grade 12 and below institutions. Item 4 only restricts employees and students, not law abiding visitors. Item five refers to legally posted establishments (buildings, not grounds and parking lots), six requires some representative of the college to identify me as carrying and inform me of the college's desire for me to leave . . . and if I leave I am still not breaking the law. The last item refers only to employees having to comply with their company's policy. Yes there are a lot of immature college kids out there. Yes there are a lot of urban/suburban kids that ought never to get closer to a gun than eating in the same restaurant as a cop. I know though, that people bent on doing bad things, will do bad things legal or not. Disarming the masses makes it easier for the bad people, when the bad people decide to do bad things. Polls and surveys say that what career criminals fear most when they get out of prison, isn’t that they’ll be sent back . . . it is that there next intended victim will be armed.
Thanks tangledupinblu. Yes she is big. I am about to inherit a St Bernard, as tall and twice as thick! :eek3: Yes, because arenas are structures, they can be legally posted. I don't walk my dog through sporting events though, so it isn't a problem. The thing that keeps me from being in violation, is that nobody has ever asked me to leave and I would not fail to comply if they did. Edited to add: I think we may be getting sidetracked - my original post was in hopes of pointing out that . . . had some guy like me been near the VT shooting, he might have been able to take the shooter out before more lives were lost. . . or at least have kept him pinned down and from continuing his rampage until cavalry arrived. I don't carry looking for trouble, and I don't want to be a hero, but I can't stomach being a victim myself & couldn't bear to just watch innocent people die if I had the means to stop it at hand . . . couldn't bear to have to watch innocent people die and know I could have prevented it, or at least stopped or slowwed it, but left the means at home (to satisfy some politically correct, not legaly binding, feel good rule) for that matter.
The biggest problem with gun free campus's is the fact that the security also can not carry. So even if the security guy comes up to someone with a gun, he also has nothing to protect himself or other with. Like I stated earlier, even if a guard was in the room when Cho chained it shut, the best the gaurd could do is the same thing that students could do. Really not much of a guard anymore is it? I am also not stating that as every student walks into class they should be handed a glock, but if they are to go through the proper training that is needed to have a permit, then what is the problem. I person that wants to go on that kinda of rampage with get whatever he/she needs to get the job done. If they can't go to the store to buy a gun, they will find it elsewhere. if they can't get a gun elsewhere, they will move on to the next item that will get them the same results. Also, do you really think Cho (or anyone for that matter) really cares that there is a law about carrying guns onto campus?? He just knows that will make his job/task that much easier when he knows that nobody will be shooting back.
agree to disagree I guess. I guess my argument wasn't around the law regarding weapons (obviously not going to stop someone)...just the idea that more guns is the solution. In hindsight, the warning signs should have been enough to get this nutbag off campus (professors and students alike feeling threatened enough to drop the class or ask that he be removed)...schools should have some strict rules around taking action sooner, rather than waiting for this kind of needless junk to happen. Agreed, the majority of conceal and carry gun owners aren't going to pose a threat...but it doesn't look like Cho needed a whole lot to get his hands on a gun, so whats stopping the next nut from getting one. I just have no time to think about all of the possible tragic scenarios that could play out when I go about my daily business, and arm myself accordingly. What a sheltered life I would then have to lead. I am more likely to take my car off the track and into a wall than I am to get stuck in a crossfire between students. Ok, now I'm done.
This is not correct. University law (as set down by the reagents) supersedes all county and state law, and the University prohibits all guns. The University was established with its own constitution. State vs. University law is a highly debatable topic, however. I would not suggest you carry a concealed weapon on University property, though. If discovered, chances are high you would be cited and/or arrested. Just trying to inform you of the law. Sorry, back on topic.
Actually. The U of M Police Department is a fully staffed, fully functional, gun toting police department. http://www1.umn.edu/police/aboutus.html
I just want to point out there is a huge difference betwseen being endorced to conceal and carry and those just carrying illegally. I think it would have prevented some deaths if the few who cared enough to become endorsed to conceal and carry. Were there with a fire arm on them. I don't see how it would have cause MORE deaths. It's not like people who carry guns would not have had the proper training. MN has a conceal and carry law and so does TX. I don't exactly hear on the news monthly that there was yet another wild west stand off in either state. Anywho, this person was seriously sick and he would have killed someone with or without a gun eventually regardless of what people think of guns. I just hate to see our/my right to bear arms trampled because of a handfull of idiots out there that can't fathom reality.
Guns laws are a separate issue, yes. Lets not obscure this thread with that. Feel free to start another thread, and I'll chime in on those issues. Not like much will be resolved in a debate over gun law over the internets, anyway. Been there, done that .
Well, lets just end the whole conversation then. [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]There is no answer. This **** is just going to happen. [/FONT]
And that may be true for us, but not at VA tech. My comments are not directed at any one school, they are directed to the fact that atleast security guards should be able to carry. That is their job to protect and it is kinda worthless when they can't fully protect themselves. Russ
