To any Subaru Mechanic. My wife has a 2002 legacy. She has taken it to the dealer for oil changes and service pretty faithfully at an average of 4578 miles between changes Twice she has gone about 6,000 between changes and once 7,000 miles. It has 87,000 on it. Last week it started making a ticking noise when cold that goes away when warmed up. Turns out the dealer says # 4 is either out of round or the piston is. So its slapping around in there a bit. they say that it will cost 250$ to determine which it is and that 9 out of 10 times it is the cylinder not the piston. They want nearly 3900.00$ for a short block which includes about 750.00 $ labor. Here's my questions: 1. Is 3200$ out of line for a standard short block. 2. Where is a good place to shop for Subie blocks on line? 3. What is the averge labor time for this repair? 4. I have never worked on Subies, Ive mostly worked on old Fords, any tips so I can do it myself would be much apprieciated. Thanks for any help.
So they want 3900 bucks for everything? If thats thats true its not that bad of a price. I am assuming that they are qoteing you on a long block. Cause book time on a short block swap is about 15 hours labor. Witch at the dealer rate of about 100 bucks an hour.... Well you get the picture. So when you price this out you have to under stand that 1) all the parts are from subaru, 2)They will be replacing things like the timing belt, water pump, accesory belts ect. So for the price of the repair doesn't sound to bad. If you think your mechanical skills are up to snuff its not that bad of a project to take on. Good luck.
that is reasonable for a dealer price on a short block. since you are now a member of MNsubaru (welcome!) go check out this thread: http://mnsubaru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9361 that should take some of the bite off the bill. as for getting it fixed you could probably find a used motor for cheaper, and drop it in. i would check ebay, it kinda scary but its a good source. otherwise other forums such as nasioc or rs25 seem to have a decent selection of 2.5l motors. when it comes to dropping one in, it is pretty easy. ya know disconnect everything, pull it out, put new one in, reconnect ect...
Thanks for the comebacks, To Iroc-Z, No that was a quote for a short block. Maybe the guy made a mistake quoting the labor , 15 hours sounds reasonable. If I do it it will take twice as long because like I say Ive never worked on these so I would have to go it slow. To Dynapar Ok thanks. I;m definately not a subie wrench, I do mosty Model A's and other simple stuff . Im going for a new block since I dont want to chance a used one. Do you guys think it was the oil not being changed enough or could it just have been a lemon engine from the start? Thank for your thoughts. JWB
well the only subie i have heard of failing from oiling issues was a extreme case. person did not check/change the oil for 30,000 miles. ended up seizing half the block and thus trashing one of the heads. the engine was bone dry! as for your case, if you were using synthetic you should be ok. most synthetics are good for 6k-9k miles between changes. if you are running dino oil, 4700+ is pushing it. but it isnt EXTREME or anything especially if its alot of highway miles. if it was a bunch of short trips you end up with alot of gas getting into the oil becuase the car isnt warmed up, which is bad. as for if it was a lemon from the start, it doesnt sound like it. the sound is a recent occurance. the 2.5ls have a decent amount of ticking and piston slap to start with, so it might be nothing; and the sounds might just be from this recent cold streak. you might try giving t some TLC, more frequent oil changes and add in some Lucas oil treatment for a while and see if it goes away. Seafoaming the crankcase might also yield some improvements if there is alot of gunk in there.
wait till it doesnt go away at all then replace...ha ha.. its winter, its cold, thick oil, takes long to get into and through engine... my 0.02c
piston slap in any outback, rs, legacy or forester from 00-04 (2.5 sohc) is extremly common, in fact we just bought the remaining stock of reman SOHC 2.5s in the country because if the demand..the sohc 2.5 has ALOT of issues, be it headgaskets (external coolent) or piston slap, ect ect
Is it a ticking noise, or something louder. With my old motor, I'd hear a tick when the oil was about due for a change. It would go away after a minute or two, depending on how cold it was. I wouldn't worry about it unless it sounds like this
Thanks Oh Subie Gurus, To : Se7enrex ...STI shortblock ,do they have a websight? Piddster .. Ha ha I mean ouch! Not even close, thanks Dynapar: Well it was all dealer oil ,they use non synthetic Mobil . I was not buying the oil failure line. I mean we have given it TLC. I didnt figure 4500 between changes was that bad. The owners man. says 5000. Will try some oil treat and we do let it warm up before driving in this cold wx. Not as cold here in the woods of west Wash. as in Minnasota. but still cold! My plan was and is to drive it till the end and then replace the engine since everything else on the car is fine. Thanks for the tips JWB
wow it really says 5000 miles huh? i always change mine at 3k or close to 3k. 5k seems like a lot. as for the STi shortblock, i dont really think it would be worth it to put in a legacy that is presumably going to stay stock. but if the legacy were to not be stock or NA it would be a great move! you should be able to find a leggy block cheaper then an sti block somewhere. EI. http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm legacy turbo motor (JDM) for 2k. long block
To all who have responded thanks, I put in some STP oil treatment and the piston slap is gone for now. Will let her ( my wife) drive it till almost sounds like the one on the websight that Piddster sent me to, and then stick in what it needs. To Dynapar, Ok thanks for the info and the websight. To AWDimprezeL, Where can I get a bored out reman? Do they have warranties? I bought a 351 Ford reman Short Block once from an outfit in Spokane WA. It came with only a one year,10K Warranty, but is still humming along in a 67 F-250 . Got over 100k on it now . So I am open to bored out remans. I had my old 1970 HD MC bored out in 1977 after I siezed up a piston one night racing down the Freeway. Must have been going 120! Dont know beans about Japenese engines or where to get them etc. My plan is to maybe try and do the job myself. I have a 59 Rambler that she can drive while im doing it . No way to learn how to wrench on it like diving right in I guess. thats how I learned on everthing else.. I really appreciate all you guys help. Thanks again .. J.W Bert
You probably don't need a shortblock. Just throwing that out there. In 1997, Consumer Reports did a test of all the major brands of oil, synthetic and non. The test was done in NYC cabs with rebuilt engines. They miced all the major wear parts like the crank, cam, valvetrain parts, and so on. They ran the test for 100k miles. Some cabs had the oil changed at 3k intervals, and others at 6k. In the end, there was no dicernable difference between brands, synthetic or non, and the 3k or 6k intervals. Cabs see more abuse than anything else. With modern oils, your average interval of about 4500 in not a problem. The 3k miles myth stems from back in the old days when oil couldn't hold up very long. Things have changed considerably since then and as long as you run an oil that has the little starburst sysbol that says its approved for gasoline engines, you are fine.
Hey Jeremy sorry I have no answers to your questions but, I was just curious how you found "us"? Oh and welcome to MnSubaru
One thing to keep in mind regarding the discount and parts such as shortblocks, heads, transmissions etc. (High dollar stuff) Subaru does not put a whole lot of markup into them. Because of that, we have to split the markup on them rather than offer the 20%. It's the exact same thing we do with mechanical shops and body shops on items like these, as if we offered the 20% we would not make much money at all (in some cases, less than 50 dollars for selling a shortblock). Just to give a heads up, I know I've told some people already. Thanks!
word...did you guys know that you get parts for the same price body shops do? feel loved, feel really loved
To Piddster Ok thanks for the oil education ,I appreciate that info. Like I said before I wasnt buying the oil change line the guy at the dealership gave me. Not only does every owners manual I ever saw on both foriegn and domestic reccomend changes at 5K but I have had mechanics tell me the same. Thats why I found this websight and you subie gurus. That you tube websight is very cool , thanks / JWBert
to badbennyb: I went to google and typed in Subaru. This is a great website. More info here on Subarus then any where else. Thanks for letting a subie neophite join in. JWB
