Subie newbie all down hill so far!

Discussion in 'Modifications And Maintenance' started by SubieHell, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Hello everybody wondering if someone can help me? here's what I've got : recently purchased less than 2 tanks of gas in. (93 octane)

    04 Subaru Sti. 6 sp manual
    48k miles on odometer. Correct? Who knows at this point.

    Engine Mods:
    World One Performance Stage 2 Forged short block
    CP pistons and Rods
    P&L GT30R Turbo kit upgraded to a FP HTA 3076
    APS Intercooler 725 FM
    P&L fuel system
    Fuel Surge tank w AN lines and fittings
    Aeromotive racing fuel pump
    1000cc fuel injectors
    ARC oil pan
    KOYO radiator
    Spral radiator fan
    Setrab oil cooler
    Spal oil cooler fan
    Setrab Transmission cooler
    Spal transmission cooler fan
    Fujitsubo Equal length headers
    P&L Custonm downpipe
    Full titanium JIC bullet cat back exhaust
    Kart boy Exhaust hangers
    Cuysco Motor mounts
    Perrin master cylinder brake brace support
    Kartboy short shift kit and shifter bushings upgrade
    ACT clutch stage 3
    Full carbon fiber driveshaft

    Issues so far:
    Car after driving for an hour ran ok whole time. Took father inlaw for ride turned around to go back car started to low idle then died, restarted car started driving again, about 100 yards,then it started to chug decelerate and when I would push on the gas pedal there was no response, ended up idling in second gear to a driveway pulled over was no throttle response at all. Turned the car off back on throttle response came back drove home without issue. car was searching for RPM going up and then down repeatedly when I was in driveway.
    I ended up taking car into JM in Osseo they told me it was running on a base map tune and they gave me a list of items to do about 1000 bucks worth. Decided to have them do the work was driving the car to the shop at JM was a cold day about four below zero and lost a seal in the turbo, ended up getting car towed after I smoked out all the cars behind me on Highway 94.

    JM replaced the turbo with a Garrett 3076R. Gen 2 I believe.
    Ran compression test (ok)
    Changed spark plugs, oil( rotella t6 5w-40 synthetic) & filter, front O2 sensor, replaced the coolant, put in a different thermostat as engine was running cold, had a 160° thermostat installed. they replace that and rewired fans into factory relays so they would come on at correct temp. They also reinstalled A fire ring that was missing in the wastegate causing it to always be open.
    They put a base map tune back on it, drove around and they said it was good to go,running good.

    ( I am not blaming them just trying to figure out where to go without hemorrhaging more cash. I think Jesse and Devin are great).

    Anyhow on way home (20 miles)car began to chug then died out. Waited a while on the side of the road then restarted and drove a little further it seemed that would make it a shorter and shorter distance every time I restarted the car. AP troubleshooting said miss fire on cyl 1,2,3,4. JM said if I get the car back there they will troubleshoot it for free try to figure out why it's doing what it's doing.

    (Before I had left with the car we discussed tuning it but I opted to not because I don't want to spend the money right now or risk having anything else go wrong during tuning but also what is the point if it's not running correctly and things need to be changed yet anyhow)

    Thanks for any and all help!
     
  2. JebusCrypes
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    JebusCrypes Active Member

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    Could be a multitude of things but it does sound like your car is going into Limp Mode.

    The person you bought this car from had to have a tune completed on it on a dyno. Do you know who did the tune? Can you call the person you bought it from to find out where its from? There should be a non-base tune on your AP. If its not there maybe the previous owner has a back-up of it on their computer.

    This would be the first thing to look into. Please update us on this thread!
     
  3. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Should have done the tune my man. I am a huge fan of JM and they get my business every time.

    This thing honestly sounds like a mess. Not that any of the parts are no good or any of that. But why, for your first Subaru, did you go with a fully built race car?

    Sorry, not trying to bust your balls. Just feel crappy for ya
     
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  4. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Did this thing come from North Dakota by chance?
     
  5. JasonoJordan
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    JasonoJordan Well-Known Member

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    Well since it was already at JM and as you said they have offered to look at it again and diagnose at least the issues for free why not just get it back to them and let them take another crack at it? With a car that modded and sounds like real lack of maintenance it will take some cash to smooth it back out again.
     
  6. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    ^yes, probably ALOT of cash. Probably walked into someones unfinished project car.
     
  7. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    Sound like a broken record but take JM up on their offer and seriously consider getting it tuned by Devin.

    There are tons of possibilities but I like to troubleshoot so I'll toss out some ideas. Mind you, I didn't see any info on what parts JM put in and what they did with a base tune so all I can do is guess...

    To me it sounds like its related to fueling. First off, what kind/brand of injectors? I was just having a discussion on the differences between InjectorDynamics vs cheapo ebay injectors and how much of a PITA they are to tune compared to ID due to variations in flow and latency.

    I am also interested in knowing what happens after you unplug the battery to reset the ECU and try driving it again. Datalogs would help a ton too. I'm always willing to read them if you want to send them my way.

    Sort of related... I ran into a problem when I first started tuning E85 where I accidently had the ethanol blend maps flip-flopped. I didn't notice until I went from E50 back to E10 pump gas (93). The injector scale was all over and it ran fine for a little while (pretty rich) but once the fuel trims pegged out at 25%, it ran rough then died. Obviously our situations are different but still relatable/similar symptoms.

    I may have also had a problem with a N/A ford focus (03 manual) that kept dying unless I kept revving it. It happened after I taught the SO how to drive a stick and a lot of time was spent in the low rpm range with the occasional restart. I drove home and it died at basically every stop light I hit. I parked the car in the drive way (at an incline), shut it off for a few seconds, started it back up, and it ran perfect. I didn't actually figure out why the focus ran that way but I have a few guesses... 1. Maybe the cars fuel trims were all over the place from the constant lugging one would expect from a novice driver in a parking lot. or 2. There could have been an issue with the EVAP (?) caused by the constant sloshing of fuel. All of my guesses are shots in the dark because it stopped doing that before I could check the fuel trims.


    Anywho... just some ideas to toss around. You are still going to want to hear JM out on what they recommend, but I'm willing to glance at logs and share my thoughts.
     
  8. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Wow you guys on this forum are awesome! Jessie at JM thinks that it was tuned at some point by J&L in Chicago I can try calling there with the Vin number see if they have any info? I will definitely call the former owner and see if he had or has any information on the previous tune. Thanks!
     
  9. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Thanks for your reply!
    Jesse said I can bring it back anytime and tune it. Yes I'm so glad that JM exists and I thanked them for that.

    I bought this not knowing a damn thing of what I was buying and I am paying the price for it. Just trying to keep from bleeding out. Yes huge mistake.
    So should I take it back to JM do the troubleshooting and get a tune before we end up knowing if we have to throw more parts at this thing? What are your thoughts? Will the tune fix some of these issues or do I run it with a base tune until it's running correctly? Or maybe I just start parting this thing out?
     
  10. TMF
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    TMF Well-Known Member

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    LOL, were you thinking it was this one? https://mnsubaru.com/threads/2004-subaru-sti-bismarck-nd-built-motor-caged-etc.52611/

    I highly doubt that a tune is going to magically solve your issues. You need to have a mechanically sound car in order to tune it properly. Think of it this way...a tune doesn't solve problems, it optimizes your cars performance based on the modifications that have been made, along with the driver's responsiveness preferences.

    If you can get it back to JM, I'd let them diagnose it. I only browsed through all of the details, but this sounds like this could be something as simple as a missing vacuum hose, a boost leak, etc. If you have a massive boost leak, the car will not run right at all...no power, the car stalls even more as you give it throttle, every light on the dash, misfires, etc.

    Since your compression checked out fine, and JM didn't find anything the first time around, I doubt that you have some sort of massive issue (like a cracked ringland, blown headgasket, etc). I could obviously be wrong and it's difficult to diagnosis, but from everything I've heard, JM knows their stuff.

    And parting it out/returning it to stock at this point will likely be a bigger headache (and way more work) than fixing the current issue. Sorry to see you're having issues, and it definitely sounds like it wasn't the right first Subaru for you to buy...you can chalk it up as a learning lesson and hopefully laugh about it years down the road. We've all made mistakes when it comes to cars!
     
  11. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Wisconsin
     
  12. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    I will try limping it back to JM this weekend when the roads are less busy or maybe have to towed to the shop. That sounds like the best bet!
     
  13. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    I will also try disconnecting the bat and see how it behaves.
     
  14. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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  15. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Just curious what kinda of oil you all run in your cars?
     
  16. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    I ran amsoil had had good Blackstone analysis results from that but I couldn't get an employee discount in it from my pt so I switched to Castrol edge. No complaints so far but never sent a oil analysis in since swapping.
     
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  17. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    I would tow it back to JM. Let them do what they need to to fix the issue. Have Devin do a full tune on it. Or drive around on a base map until you’re sure the problem is gone. Enjoy!

    Future reference, never ever buy someone else’s project unless you trust them with your life. :) This thing has a crap ton of parts in it that your average Subie guy will never put in their car. It is a race car! Hopefully you got a good deal on it.

    Blackstone Labs will basically tell you that oil is oil. I run Valvoline MaxLife. Rotella t6 is very popular with the guys/gals on here.
     
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  18. TMF
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    TMF Well-Known Member

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    Read:
    https://jalopnik.com/why-expensive-oil-is-a-waste-of-money-1797241527
    and the full article from Blackstone themselves is here:
    https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/July-1-2017.php

    That said, I still try to search for the best oil lol. Everyone has their preferences, but at the end of the day, start by changing your oil every 3k or so, and send a sample to Blackstone for an analysis (it's actually really easy). They will give you the best advice based on real data from your oil. The oil analysis exposes your engine's health, and if you do repeated analysis's over time, you can track how your engine is wearing. Blackstone also gives recommendations when you can go longer between oil changes.

    All of that said, a great, poplar, cheap option for turbo Subaru's is Rotella T6 (only comes as 5W40 and don't mind that it says oil for diesel vehicles). Avoid Mobil One for turbo subaru's (although it does just fine in the BRZ). Amsoil is another great choice regardless of car.
     
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  19. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    Before this generates any questions, mobile1 isn't recommended for turbo cars as it known to break down faster under high temps. Probably related, I ran mobile 1 and spun a rod bearing... in a car known to spin rod bearings.

    Ymmv
     
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  20. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    I think I will tow it back over there like you said. Base map until some confidence comes back then the full tune like you say. I like that!
    So what I think happened with this car is the owner before the guy that sold it to me built the **** out of it Raced it, what ever. Then sold it to the guy I bought it from because all he did was put a new clutch in it.
    What would be a good deal? Lol
    I'll prob never buy a modded anything.
    Thanks for all your help !
     
  21. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    https://mnsubaru.com/threads/2004-subaru-sti-bismarck-nd-built-motor-caged-etc.52611/
    ^that is a good deal for one built for racing. That car stock with that low of miles would probably be worth more without the mods honestly. I don’t recall what the blue book on an 04 STi with 80k is tho.

    Best to buy unmodded and work your way up the mod list. Bonus that you got a new clutch too! Assuming the guy new what he was doing.

    Edit: “good condition”
    A1432515-822F-4049-929C-E96A5430026B.png
     
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  22. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    I got this one for 12,500. The ND one looks sick. I've seen stock ones with 60k on c list for 21k so I'm with ya.

    Clutch was installed by the dudes uncle who was a mechanic. So I was told.

    Here is a more complete list of all the mods that have been done :



    PERFORMANCE MODS:

    World One Performance Stage 2 Forged short block
    CP pistons and Rods
    P&L GT30R Turbo kit upgraded to a FP HTA 3076
    APS Intercooler 725 FM
    P&L fuel system
    Fuel Surge tank w AN lines and fittings
    Aeromotive racing fuel pump
    1000cc fuel injectors
    ARC oil pan
    KOYO radiator
    Spral radiator fan
    Setrab oil cooler
    Spal oil cooler fan
    Setrab Transmission cooler
    Spal transmission cooler fan
    Fujitsubo Equal length headers
    P&L Custonm downpipe
    Full titanium JIC bullet cat back exhaust
    Kart boy Exhaust hangers
    Cuysco Motor mounts
    Perrin master cylinder brake brace support
    Kartboy short shift kit and shifter bushings upgrade
    ACT clutch stage 3
    Full carbon fiber driveshaft (helps transmit the power to the wheels)

    BRAKES:

    StopTech big brake kit
    14" 2 piece rotors
    Titanium cooling shim upgrade in calipers
    Stainless steel brake lines
    Carbon Kevlar brake ducting
    Nissan bearing upgrade in front hubs

    SUSPENSION:

    Cusco Zero 2r Coilovers
    TI Cusco front strut tower brace
    Rear cusco strut tower brace with carbon fiber triangle support
    Doluck subframe brace
    Full urethane bushings all around
    PSRS Perrin System
    Aluminum STI Trailing arms
    White line sway bars
    Adjustable camber plates front and rear

    EXTERIOR:

    INGS+1 Hybrid Aero body kit
    Sparco Hood pins
    SYMS wide vented front fenders
    Carbon fiber Front and Rear doors
    Seibon Carbon fiber Hood
    Seibon Carbon fiber Trunk
    DRY carbon carbon fiber rotora spoiler
    Chargespeed rear fender carbon fiber arches
    Carbon fiber APR mirrors
    18"origal light weight gunmetal SSR Comp rims
    Piaa wiper blades
    New performance tires

    INTERIOR:

    AEM wide band
    Defi gauges with recording head unit
    Defi gauge pod
    Apexi turbo timer
    JDM v9 Spec C RA interior
    Gauges are boost, fuel pressure, egt temp, and oil pressure
     
  23. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Good god. Well if you can’t get it running right, you should probably get your money back in parts. That’s an extensive list. Do you have any pics? Did you say that you thought that it was built/tuned by P&L in Chicago?
    https://www.pandlmotorsports.com/

    Did you want a 400-600hp Subaru? Because it sounds like you bought one.(if you get the bugs worked out)
     
  24. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Also, someone dumped a ton of time and money into this thing. I’m a little worried for you. Could be that they just got rid of it because they couldn’t solve the problem/s.

    Worst case scenario. Ultimately, JMA is the place to get it done.
     
  25. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    No problem that can't be solved... No mess that can't be cleaned. Except chernobyl. That's kinda dickered.
     
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  26. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    Yes, this is true. Sometimes people give up tho. Which could benefit the new owner as well.
     
  27. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    After looking at a stock 04 Sti for 22k and then seeing this one with 400 hp for half the price I went with this one. The guy said it was running great so figured what could go wrong. And in hind sight...

    With the parts that have been done on this car that was kind of my thought do I just stop putting money into this and just start parting it out to avoid putting so much and labor costs try to troubleshoot the problems?
    Also with the fact that this guy might've been running a base tune on it running it in the boost and having it go lean was probably not good for the engine, now if we try tuning it how risky is it on something blowing up losing the engine now we are out even bigger money.

    I will post some pictures tonight.
     
  28. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Yeah I agree it's only money I guess. I'll just have to work harder. I would love to get this baby to run and have her all tuned up. Would be very fun! It just seems like one thing then another!
     
  29. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    Sometimes I feel that way about my 2013. It will get figured out and I'm here to help if needed!
     
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  30. Krazylegz1485
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    Krazylegz1485 Well-Known Member

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    This is your official welcome to the Subaru world.
     
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  31. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    ^What he said!

    You are definitely an official Subaru owner now. Welcome to the club!!
     
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  32. LASERBLUE135
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    LASERBLUE135 Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'll try to lighten your spirits. You paid $12k for an STI with extremely low miles and a ton of modifications. The red flags should have been everywhere. If you added up just the parts cost you'd be $20/$30/$40!? thousand?

    So, you've got your money's worth, BUT you've got to correct what the guy before you likely couldn't correct. You've got some options:
    1. Throw money at it and hope that it gets fixed and you can enjoy the car.
    2. Start removing parts and getting back to closer-to-stock (selling parts and buying as needed). I see World One Performance shut down in 2010 so that built engine is from before that time?
    3. Put it on the market and cut your losses.

    You're not in a terrible position. You paid the right price. The modifications do have significant value, worst case scenario.
     
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  33. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Thanks for your post! I honestly like option 1 the best. I can walk out start it up and drive the car. I think we are on the right path here. I will tow it back up to JM and see if they can figure out the current dying out issue. I have a text into old owner to find out if he ever had it tuned or de tuned. I'll post his reply if he does.
     
  34. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Thank you! Thanks for being here everyone! Hopefully I can post some better news soon!
     
  35. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Glad to be in! Thanks for the welcome !
     
  36. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    What issues are you dealing with? Thanks for being there for me!
     
  37. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    image.jpeg
     
  38. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Sorry about the bad lighting upside down pict. I have the car tucked in the garage out of snow. Figure ice and cold won't help
     
  39. tangledupinblu
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    tangledupinblu Event Coordinator Staff Member

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    I meant pics of the car! Lol. We’ll have to wait for it to get back out of the garage. ;)
     
  40. subie-roo
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    subie-roo Well-Known Member

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    Your story is oh so familiar to me, I experienced a similar situation with my Legacy GT, I hope you get it figured out.

    This forum is a great resource, welcome!!
     
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  41. Mnelson
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    Mnelson Active Member

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    One week I smelt e85 in the cab on startup. Couldn't figure out why.. Then it went away and a week later I smelt oil after parking. Then it's gone. Now it feels like it understeers and it almost looks like there's too much toe in the front than I remember. Maybe I hit a pothole too hard. Dunno.. Just stuff like that.

    But yeah no problem, invite to any mns member.
     
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  42. derp
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    derp Well-Known Member

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    in for pictures of this thing.
     
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  43. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Just brought the car back to JM yesterday. Hopefully they can figure it out. Not a fun car to load on a trailer. It idles fine and drives just not very far without issue!
     
  44. SubieHell
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    SubieHell New Member

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    Got the car back from JM guys! The geniuses at JM were able to determine the problem which turned out to be an electrical issue they found a high resistance ground and fix that which seemed to correct a lot of the issues it had. I was able to drive the car home from the shop had no issues then took it out yesterday for about 40 minutes had no issues great advice to bring it back to JM!
     
  45. klutz
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    klutz Well-Known Member

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    Congrats on the fix. Subscribed for pics. Send 'em :)
     
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