swap questions

i'm thinking of swapping my 2.0 for a 2.5. I was thinking possibly a JDM FXT engine from gruppe-s (with heads) or a hybrid setup (2.5 block with wrx heads). my questions are about the pros and cons of each. there is price of course, but with a long block would I need to upgrade cams? would I need something like a hydra to control avcs? also, thinking of a big turbo as well, maybe nos to spool up. I have an auto, so any issues anyone can think of? like with engine management...cause if I go big with nos, I know little about my options. I would be sleeving the cylinders as well. thanks in advance for any comments.

 

nos huh?

 

funny..how did I know the first comment was gonna be about nos. if theres a better way to spool a big turbo, enlighten me i'm not a newb and I know nos is a 4 letter word in the subi community, but I'm just probing for advice/opinions. I already know the consensus on nos. thanks

 

Just please stop calling it "nos." Nos is a brand name. There are many company's that sell nitrous kits, not just "Nos." Lol, i'm sorry; when I had my integra, every kid on team-integra was nos this and nos that. It was really annoying. And I hate pretty much everything from F&F, which is where the nos craze came from.

 

I know, theres a stigma attached to it. But everyone knows what NOS is. To make it clear, I am thinking of using Nitrous Oxide to spool a big turbo. No matter which company it is. I think it sounds dumb too. Even thinking about using it, I feel a little lame. But I know it'll help spool. I'm more interested in info about the engines. But, I wanna make sure to cover all my options.

 

isn't the jdm fxt same as the fxt here in the us?
just wondering.

 

Do the newer cars not have a separate TCU for the auto?

 

ok, so then the auto is gonna limit my options. Which is fine. So, if i spray, would it be imperative that I sleeve the cylinders? If i sleeve would that allow more boost as well? With that much more power, I'm running out of transmission life quickly...options for the 4EAT? IPT? and...I'd like to limit heat soak issues as much as possible. Should I switch to FMIC using that much power(30r)? or just keep the TMIC, spool and torque, and wrap and coat everything? What size cams? Springs, retainers?


I love to ask questions Thanks

 

N2O is the proper abbreviation

 

well you'll most likely be building it Matt, so as long as it'll beat that legacy of yours, i'll be happy haha

 

You should be able to use the stock (edit:Forester XT) ECU. You might need a bigger MAF sensor housing. I think the stock one on a 32-bit car maxes out somewhere around 400 horsepower.

 

I'm runnin the perrin big maf at the moment with my 20g. But I think i'm going with a UR kit eventually. I believe they cone with bigger maf anyway.

 

I haven't seen any that really give smooth airflow like the stock one does. That's not an easy thing to engineer. I think there's been rumors of a Cobb one coming out eventually. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Sounds like you have been in my head Echo. These are almost the exact same plans I have for my car when I get back. Have you thought at all about going to an IPT race tranny or are you going to see if the IPT VB and ProTorque TC will hold the power?

 

i've been looking at the ipt tranny, but haven't made any decisions yet. It's 4k! So, maybe some upkeep on the current one first, then if she goes....IPT tranny time

 

So I have been doing more and more research on doing a Hybrid swap (nothing to do at my internship) and have developed a few questions of my own. If I did the 257 short block, I think I would buy it from here (www.thekingofparts.com) and get just the block unless the full option would be better (comes with STI Oil pump, Water pump, timing belt, and gasket kit for another 500 dollars). I would do forged pistons, is price usually good sign of you get what you pay for? Cams are a must as it seems that the WRX cams just have no ability to support the top end power that I would be able to produce (Where can I find CAMS that fit a 257 but dont run AVCS?). I have been leaning towards the GT30R and doing water/alky injection and only running Race Gas (live in chicago now primarily so this is only for summer fun). Injectors wise, do something around the 800-900cc range. Definately get a stronger Timing Belt, as well as radiator. Now what about things like springs & retainers? Rods? Head studs? Bearings? Are those things that I should also be looking into doing at the same time the engine is taken apart or am I just not looking big enough to worry about those things? I mean if I am going to do a hybrid and crack open my engine, in theory, I would like it to be the last time I ever have to for a long, long time. I know that if I had a horsepower goal it would make answering my questions a bit easier on what other parts I should be looking at but I can't. The drive train in a 4EAT loses to much power to try and guess a HP figure. The only real judgement of power is that I would like to stay away from differentials and axles having the chance of breaking but if it happens, it happens. But if you can't live with a HP goal, say something around 500+ hp mark (not whp). If I missed anything or should think twice about something please say so as I have looked and looked for a good write up on things a person should look into for a hybrid swap to happen but there is NOTHING out there except a bunch of people's projects documenting their process and over half of those arn't looking at the type of power I want and if they are, they arn't dealing with a 4EAT. Of course the other option would be to purchase a Axis Power Racing stage 2 or 3 motor and slap a turbo kit on it and call it a day. The only advantage of this is that it would give me the possibility of purchasing a IPT race tranny.


Oh yeah, the reason I am looking into this is because my last turbo had some issues (shaft play, it happens) and my dad also said he would be willing to help this time around with money because he is kinda of getting the speed bug and I think he wants something a little faster than his escalade on occasion.

I already got coilovers, sway bars (F&R), IPT VB, ProTorque TC, Tranny cooler (although I will need to buy a bigger one), Brakes are being dealt with, APS DR525 FMIC (may do custom piping for a reverse manifold) and as far as interior and exterior I could care less right now seeing as this is becoming a "fun" car only now and will no longer be daily driven.

Cliff Notes: Are there any other things I should think about purchasing and installing when doing a 2.5 hybrid, to a 4EAT, besides cams, and pistons, when aiming for 500+hp

 

I have been discussing this with another person on here, and it seems you and i do have basically the same ideas. So, on that note...

Cams are a must. Stage 2 or 3. Gonna run around 1k for brand new quality ones. You can get some cheaper cams though. Just search around. I will probably go with cosworth, unless something else is brought to my attention. You won't have to worry about AVCS w/2.0 heads, but I personally don't know that if they say they control AVCS, that it matters or not. That's something to look into.

Pistons are a must. Mahle, or whatever forged piston you'd like. I know there are some people on here that have certain pistons to avoid., but I know that Mahle have a pretty good rep in the suby block, so, that's what I'm gonna go with. You can get those for 400-500 new.

You get what you pay for these days. In all my experience, this is very true, in all things.

You can probably get a 257 cheaper from a local MN dealer like minnetonka using your MNsuby discount. 20% off!!!

Using H20/alky with pump will be a good idea, since you're basically running Race gas with that setup. But I am gonna go an extra step and use N20 with 110(race) gas as well!!!

I think you should be safe with 800-900cc injectors. I currently have UR 785cc injectors, and haven't discussed a need for upgrade. So, I think I may max them out, but it will be close with a gt30r. Upgrading your Fuel lines to say a perrin kit or something would be a good idea (if you havent' already). Those can run around $250-$350.

The timing belt is key, and make sure you have a new water pump. I have the STi timing belt, but if I do a swap I will either buy another one, or get an upgraded one (kevlar), that is if I hear they don't suck.

Oh..you will also need Head Gaskets. Since it's a hybrid setup, you should get some cometic ones from Axis. If you talk to them about your hybrid setup, they will have the right gaskets you'll need. As far as I know, you shouldn't use the stock gaskets!!!

ARP Head studs are key as well. You won't need the larger size. Regular size will do. $100-$200.

Main and Rod Bearings are cheap, might as well upgrade them as well.

Springs and retainers are a good idea since they are relatively cheap in comparison to everything else. You could go with your stockers, but sometimes it just helps to upgrade everything!!!

Valves...that can get spendy. If you're gonna get valves, get 1mm bigger...but you will need shims and seals and a valve job, etc..so it can get spendy when doing it right.

I don't think that Rod replacement is necessary in the 257 block. Replacing the pistons themselves is usually good enough. If you have the extra cash and want extra security, than go with some upgraded rods. But that will cost you another $500-$1000, unless you go with a company like Eagle...$400. But, you do get what you pay for.

And yes, a bigger Tranny cooler, will be necessary.

I am also going to be getting an oil cooler and catch can. Maybe something along the lines of a B-Line oil cooler. If I'm gonna be spending the money on the motor upgrade, I'd like my fluids to be taken care of so that my motor runs cleeeeeeeeeean. I already have a Koyo radiator, so my coolant is good for the swap. Upgrading the hoses to silicone is a good idea.

Other things to think about...

Is your turbo gonna be internally or externally wastegated?

You might want to have a tranny rebuild done first, depending on the miles. Throw some good parts at it. IPT has a rebuild kit. Then if it goes kerplunk after hitting 8.5k in second gear...well Race Tranny here I come.

Headers would be good. GT Spec gen II seem to be a real soild and cheap(relatively speaking) header.

With that big or turbo, you wouldn't want to be limited by MAF voltage, so if you don't already, making sure you have a BIG MAF style intake for your setup would be a suggestion. But kits like the UR kit, have them cold air style and not a ram like the perrin BIG MAF. Plus, I'm not sure it would work with a rotated setup anyway.

Turbo inlet pipe (silicone).

A bpv that can handle the pressure and recirculates!!!

Gauges!!

You could do tgv deletes, but may have start problems, so i hear

Coating and wrapping everything is a good idea.

...and a quality tune of course

And even though I said I may sleeve the block, from what i hear, they're kind of a beeotch to keep in the subi block. So, maybe i'll just skip that part. The 257 should be pretty solid.

I may have missed something...but i can't think of anything right now, and anyone else is welcome to jump in here and give some advice.

- Justin K.