alright, face it. the evo outhandles the sti. the sti understeers and understeers while the evo keeps it really nice and tidy. what are your suggestions for more handling power!? here's what im thinking, lets see if you can improve this setup front/rear strut bar bigger sway bars 4 section undercarrage braces full coilover with adjustable pillow mounts interior harness/body brace very sticky tires rear diffuser
All those mods you listed would make an STi handle like a monster. Rear swaybar alone will make it a little more tail happy. Coilovers will reduce body roll considerably too. Harness-bar will increase rigidity, but not as much as you might think. The undercarriage braces are nice since they are cheap on eBay. Rear diffuser would help, I hear the Evo MR benefits nicely from the roof vanes, I've seen those for sale for the WRX/STi. It would aid in highspeed stability. Sticky tires, always a must. The Evo comes with some really nice Advan tires right off the lot.
05/06 sti's, although have a newer rear suspension setup does not have the super active yaw control that's on the evo. they still understeer much more compared to the evo
Yes, they have a super lightweight roof. The material was so thin, they had to put rigidity creases in it so it would fold from wind blowing over it. If you ever see one in person, and the owner is cool, lightly tap the roof with your pointer finger....it feels paper thin.
wow, it's even thinner then the impreza sti's roof? i know the put an aluminum roof on the evo mr, but im pretty sure the sti roof is aluminum as well, that goes the same for the bonnet, doors, and fenders
Not a bad start... First... hold off on the strut bars, undercarriage, and body braces. not necessary for a while. at least not until the suspension is beyond just some coil-overs or sway bars. The GD chassis is really quite stiff. if it was a GC8, then i'd say go for the bracing. Absolute first step: Tires. GOOD TIRES!! The preference tires right now among most autocrossers are the RT-615 falkens. their stiffer sidewalls really are the deal breaker when looking between most other MaxPerf tires out there. The suby needs the stiff sidewalls to help it deal with all the weight. Rear diffuser.... pfts... that's only going to help at around 100-120+mph. get a front diffuser first. their much more effective at lower speeds. but again, low on the priorities list. Full Coil-overs... now this is where a drastic difference is made. these should be second priority to tires. there's a few good brands, and plenty of hosers when it comes to true performance vs. lowering for looks. i don't want to name names, but there is a certain brand of coil over that uses a certain color, that doesn't quite last as long as the others, and doesn't handle as well either. the price on these said coil-overs are good, but you get what you pay for. Bigger sway bars... these have to be mixed with the coil overs. you have to size them to work together with the spring rate and dampening of the coil over or you won't take proper advantage of either. FRONT AND REAR sway bars are important. don't just do one. Additions: Lower control arms... not only are they stiffening thanks to the upgraded bushings that will come with them, you want adjustable ones. that way you can achieve any camber and toe setting in the rear necessary to adjust turn in and break away. Bushings.... nothing will increase the feedback and feel of the car than updated poly-urethane or even pillow-ball bushings throughout the car. Camber/Caster Plates... most coil overs come with a camber plate, but you really want to swap that one out with one capable of adjusting both camber and caster. this will give you better feel, and the added caster will allow you to run less static camber, as you will actually gain camber when the wheel is turned. it will also better the feel and weight of the steering. and here's the final big one: ALIGNMENT! all this stuff won't help you a bit unless the wheels are pointed properly to use all the tire in the thick of the corner, where you really need it. also, you should always corner weight a car that has had coil-overs installed. not only can you usually nullify the weight of the driver, but it also helps lower wear on various parts and makes the car handle much more naturally. and make sure you don't over lower the car. suspension travel is your friend, even if body roll isn't. trailing arms... good idea if your putting down plenty of power, but not over all necessary. good step to do between all the important stuff and the chassis bracing. holy crap my hands hurt....
thanks for all the help man! yeah, i got some terrible tires on my car now, some pirelli p4 all seasons.. they are really garbage. im gonna buy another set of wheels with stickier tires when i get the money. the factory-came potenza re070 were very god-like... i hope to get something that quality or better. the sidewalls on my current wheels feel like mushy lumps of mashed potatoes
if you thought the 070s were awesome, wait untill you get the Falkens. :drool: I <3 My Falkens. Soo much grip, no ****ing tread wiggle like the 070s transitions are as smooth as rubbing hot oil on victoria silvsted.
and just remember... understeer is not your enemy. excessive understeer is. at the limit, you really want a car that understeers just a bit. understeer can easily be countered by technique, but sudden oversteer can snap around and bite your head off.
what kinda falkens do you have one ur car? i heard lots of people run the azenies but i thought those were nowhere near the re070s
RT-615 245/45-17 http://shane86.mnscc.net/images/newwheels/newwheels.html The 070s are designed to get good wear for a performance tire, but don't hold up too well to max perf driving. i know people who burned them off in 5-10k mi. The Flaken is a much better tire. i've stunned people with the dry and wet grip.
Sorry Shane, but you are waaaay over exagerating.... the 070 are a much better tire than you give it credit. The Azenis is very marginally better. I have driven the STi with the 070s (duh), the 615, and the MX. The difference is minor between the 070 and the 615 (but, yes, there is a slight advantage to the 615), but both feel considerably better than the MX (unfortunately what I am on during the summer now). BTW, they are not designed for long wear! ....and Joegengsta, nice exagerations, as well..... :roll: The differences between the STi and EVO are minor. Anyone that says the STi sucks in handling relative to the EVO, has never taken it to the limit. 98% of drivers couldn't extract a half a second around a race track in an EVO versus the STi.
woah woah woah. im not exagerating. maybe i never pushed the car to the limit myself but endless top gear, sport compact tests, and so forth show that the sti understeers a ton compared to the evo. hey man, i love my sti but i will never say it can outhandle an evo (mr) until i get some more suspension mods
regardless of handling ability sti>evo...am i biased??? your damned right i am, i just HATE mitsu with a passion, its not hate just to hate, its because ive had nothing but bad bad terrible experiences with them
No appologies neccisary. i haven't really driven on the 070s much. and the couple of times that i did, it was mostly in the wet. i just thought that the 070s felt much more "wiggly" and thats why i gave the falkens such a big ++. The big thing to keep in mind though, is that even the expensive falkens cost half as much as new 070s! Have you thought of trying the Kooks? i've been kind of itching to try a set.
so you basically want to mod your car to the hilt so you can say it outhandles an MR? Find an outlet to drive the car somewhere other than a straight line (autox or Brainerd) - once you have pushed the car to the limit, then make your additions so you can actually tell the difference yourself instead of going by whatever XYZ mag said. The only aluminum body panel on the STi is the hood.
^^^correct, and correct again! Thanks Austin...It's about time someone stated the obvious about car mags. Few car mags NOT BIASED towards certain car mfgs.
1. Don't believe everthing you read. STis are very competent against the Evos. Don't believe me go to the AutoX and tracks. Magazines are biased..FACT. 2. Stock RE070s are AWESOME. They aren't great in wet conditions and they don't come in wider sizes. 3. Your mod path should look something like this: -Alignment -Larger front sway Whiteline 27-29mm bar -Larger rear sway bar. For example the Whiteline 22-24mm bar or the 24-26mm bar. This depends on your spring rate These three will easily put you in a different class when compared to the Evo. If you want to go further look into: Camber plates, springs, and Group-N mounts for the rear. If this isn't extreme enough, go coilovers with stiff spring rates and a smaller rear bar. If you want larger tires go with the aforementioned 245/45/17 Falken RT615s. Bottom line is it all comes down to your application. If you just want upgraded pieces for the street b/c the magazines rank the STi less than the Evo...then you only really need to do an alignment and maybe a larger front sway. Like others have said, 99.9% of STi and Evo users will never come close to pushing their car to really be able to tell the difference. I've seen PLENTY of Evo owners getting much worse times than STis on course, and vice versa.
sti > evo on straights... evo > sti on non straights... and i bet if the evo had a 2.5 liter engine, there would be a different story... haha i'm not trying to brag... from my personal experience, i've never had much problems against the sti. my older brother used to have an sti and theo only time we've actually ran one another, he wasn't fully comfortable with hitting the corners; i, on the other hand, copied his every move from behind... oh well... just had to put my .02 cents in for the fun of telling you how awesome i think the mitsu is because you hate them with a passion! lol in all honesty, i love the subies' low-end torque, powerband and interior, as compared to that of the evo's... maybe try putting on the evo's advan's? that'll increase performance, guaranteed!
Fixed that for you I have done a good deal of driving in an Evo 9 and an STi, and it comes down to this to me: Like throttle on oversteer? get an STi Like really good turn in? Get an Evo want both? Put decent coilovers and bars on an STi.
Absolutely well put. I love how the STi will throttle-on oversteer, which is a nice benefit in AutoX. The Evo's sharp handling can be attributed partially to the quicker ratio steering rack as well. Heck, I think the STi would be on par with the Evo with a good sport alignment maxing out neg front camber and larger front bar. For more in-depth discussion on this topic check this thread out: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12490&highlight=Evo
First mod to enhance the way your car handle... get as much seat time as you can at a road course. Best Motor still has the STi rated as the drivers car. The EVO has way too much electronic control going for it. The connection between the driver and the car is lost somewhere, IMHO.
the MR is abit higher than the STi...there's a spec-c to compete with it but we dont get one.....those two are very competitive in japan with the loser only losing because it got beat to the first corner or the driver messed up somewhere along the way. anyways, as stated, both cars are very equal, both built differently. Subaru uses mechanics for performance while mitsu uses electronics. The evo will do better being that its has electronics to help it and the average driver can do good. The STi is mostly mechanics, you either know how to drive it or you don't. those that don't pushes it like they would with the evo and thus understeer. Those that knows how to handle it, they go right on with the evos. with both people that knows what they are doing, both will still be pretty equal with the evo edging it out abit.
You are very right on the $$$, that is primarily why I am running the MXs (and to try something else to get some more experiences). As for the Kooks, I thought about them, but didn't go with them, no particular reason I guess. I will be running on the MX through this summer, at least (I just bought them in Sept). I don't know, yet, what will be next. I was seriously considering the Yoko Neova, as well, but that is quite expensive, too.
