So, today, between taking trouble calls for work, myself and Aegis set out to make an XBox360 work again after the red rings of death claimed it. Big thanks to Manochromatic for providing us with this hunk of crap. Let me go ahead and fill you in on why this product is such a steaming pile. I'll go line by line with my own technical analysis of the situation. 1) The XBOX360 is a cooling nightmare. The hardware is completely shoved and shoehorned into the unit by design. You've heard the old adage that Form follows Function. Well, in this case, it holds true. Because the form they chose leads to some of the worst function money can buy. The most hilarious part of this ordeal for me was when we had the XBOX running just fine with no covers on the frame. Then we put the top and bottom cover on the unit and immediately the fans began informing us that the CPU and GPU were running hot by spinning the fans up to 3 or 4 times the speed they were running at seconds earlier. Snap the front cover and top/bottom covers on, and it overheats and gives you two pieces of the red ring. Inside the unit, there is ZERO space for extra fans. About the only thing that could possibly save this unit from certain failure in the future would be to take a drill to every panel and gore out holes for breathing. 2) The main board is flimsy chinese crap. The fact that it flexes and bends when screwing it into the chassis is scary enough, but then couple that with the choice of cooling they used for the CPU/GPU units that requires a pressure fit bracket which also causes the board to flex (you can watch it bend) and this brings us to another problem. If you tighten all the screws in the system down finger tight, the board becomes so flexed that it wont turn on. You usually only see this in REALLY cheaply made circuit boards. Board flex shouldn't be an issue on this. But it is. We left out some 80% of the screws that hold the main board to the chassis just so it would start again. If you combine problems one and two, you arrive at problem 3. Board flex errors are compounded by heavy heat cycling. The board is under pressure at all times by the mounting, then it gets heated...alot. Then you shut it off, and it returns to room temp...this heat cycling causes even more failures as the lead-free solder becomes weaker and weaker due to heat cycling. And the already weakened solder points are already under stress from the board being stressed. Seriously, its pretty much designed to fail. So, after a few hours of dicking around, we finally have it in the case and running, running hot, but running. I think if the temp in the house were to hit 80 degrees it would likely kill the thing, and we'd have to wait till the air temp cooled down to use it again. This thing is truly built on the lowest dollar they could spend. Cut corners, no R&D. There is a reason these things fail so much with teh red rings of death, it's because it is a shoddy product. Sorry, I had to say something about this because honestly, it pissed me off that they pass this thing off to consumers who continue to buy it up and have it fail on them.
The fact that people can start a business and make money solely repairing xbox 360's outside of warranty should tell you something.
eh, it functions, and aside from about $10 bucks for thermal paste and rubbing alcohol, it didn't cost me anything.
I'll still take a 360 over a Wii or PS3 anyday. Yes, my launch system got the red rings, and I shipped it back to Microsoft, and they returned it fixed within 2 weeks (and this was during the holidays, so kudos to them for their promptness at least). But, they have the best games and online service hands-down. I agree, it is a big turd tech design wise, but when it's working, it's friggin awesome.
If you get the rings again, lmk, I'll tell you how to fix it. It's not as involved as you think. Now I just need some games for it! I noticed that you posted in Ryan's thread. I already have the following for PC (and do not wish to purchase on 360 - no sense owning it twice) Half-life Half-Life 2 Orange Box (portal, TF2) L4d Bioshock Doom 3 F.E.A.R + EP F.E.A.R 2 I'm thinking I want fallout 3, and COD: WaW (mostly cause a friend wants to play COD) Also I like the customizabilaty and community of l4d on PC, so I'll probably buy l4d2 for PC as well. what do you think? I know that the 360 will not be my shooter heaven, my PC is already. But I do like the idea of playing games online without being bothered by the same idiots. I want a new group of same idiots.
I haven't personally had the red rings but my first 360 the DVD drive crapped out on in less than a year and this second one is showing signs of the same bull****.. My sister has replaced hers five times since it was new because of red rings... microsoft once again selling horrible hardware at high prices.. If anyone had a intellimouse explorer back in the day it wouldn't suprise you.
I have honestly never had the rings and have had my 360 for 3 years. I do have a cooler fan on the back of it.
And that is why you haven't gotten the rings. But to have to purchase an aftermarket cooling device for your XBox for it to function well is absolute crap.
Is it a Nyko fan? if it is take it off right away. They are faulty, they don't help the cooling at all and the power connection can burst into flames. Steph or Jason what version machine is it? I'm betting it's the pre 65nm chip. The RROD fix is super easy once you do the fix the issue won't come back. The newer falcon chip machines are a lot more reliable. PS3s and wii are bigger pieces of crap than the 360.
Just for the folks who are wondering: the chip really has nothing to do with this problem, it's the standoff on the bottom of the case. It's too high in the center of the board, while the rest of them are about 1mm shorter all around the board. There is nothing in the middle to reinforce that, just a screw. The x-clamps bend the board. if they are still using x-clamps on their chips, they are still bending the board. There may be space between the board and the bottom of the clamp that pushes the board up, but the issue remains, unless they have removed those x-clamps, they are bending the board. it's just a matter of time before every 360 dies. See? And some of them won't die, too. They went with this design because it was efficient, and it worked. MS was *banking* on a failure rate, the rate of failures does not surpass the rate of successes, so who cares? However I have read that the newer model 360s have addressed the overheating issue, whether it be by adding space, raising the remaining standoffs (doubtful, why do that when your case is mass-produced) or adding more fans. Whichever way they did it, they lowered that failure rate a tiny bit. And yes, I agree, the ps3 is just an upgraded ps2, and I've fixed my fair share of those. POS. Never seen the inside of a wii. Note, I did not sand off the standoffs, so I'm probably screwed. Right now it's running, but it's not happy about it. All I did was loosen the screws, and completely remove the ones from the x-clamp except for on each side. Reasoning is that the big one that holds down the DVD drive goes through the board, so it's holding down the right side (under the dvd drive) I plan to remove the x-clamps altogether, and replace it with just a solid metal piece. EIther way, it's not RROD anymore. And I did it without having to send it in for repair (which just translates to them dicking with it for a week and sending you a new xbox, setting you up for this problem ALL OVER AGAIN) I have a real problem with the way MS handles their customers and issues. otherwise, i have no problem with owning their products. Its a love/hate relationship. Goalie: I'm not sure the model, it's an older xbox 360 elite, the black one. Probably one of the first runs of the Elite, which means it has a lot more problems akin to the early 360s. All this aside, I'm just happy it worked, and that the fix was successful. It was like reading CEL for cars!
The 65nm machines dont really have the rrod issue. If it's an early elite don't be surprised if you get the video error 74 or 71 problem.
Ok I'll watch out for that. I'll dig in it tomorrow and see which model it is, and look out for other problems. Interesting that the newer ones don't have the issue, I wonder what it is that they changed.
Get Far Cry 2 for the 360. It's all I play now, the map creation system is the absolute bomb for the multiplayer. Like a new game all the time.
I have had 2 360's. Both have had the RROD. I sold my PS3, still have the Xbox. just sayin... Also, Steph, if you get COD get 4. I'll let you shoot my enemies.
Well, I didnt read all of the posts in here, quick scim after a long 14 hour shift. I had the red ring of death. There is a sponsor on mnsc, jim wross that will fix it for $40. You are in and out of his shop in about 20 minutes. Located practically on the U of M campus. Check out the Minneapolis Gameing thread in the sponsors section for more info. Just an fyi for you. btw, my gamername on cod4 is Buebie. Hit me up on friends and send me a message as to who you are. I'd love to game with more locals.
Console failure rate Xbox 360 – 54.2% Playstation 3 – 10.6% Wii – 6.8% Percentage of console owners who suffered a second hardware failure after the original repair. Xbox 360 – 41.2% Playstation 3 – 14.7% Wii – 11% Percentage of people who rate their customer service experience "very helpful" Nintendo – 56.1% Sony – 51.1% Microsoft – 37.7% Percentage of respondents whose friends have had console hardware failures. Xbox 360 – 69.9% Playstation 3 – 12.4% Wii – 6% http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/101/1014486p1.html :biggrin:
I would imagine its pretty accurate. The ONLY thing the xbox has is its online community...and I am pretty confident its simply because it came out first.
Come by work some time and I'll show you a comparison of repair orders, it's not even close. i haven't sent out a 360 for repairs in 2 years. PS3s don't even make it on the floor because half are dead when they get to us and I have twice the amount of WIIs that I need because every month we send out a huge batch for repair. the Wii drive and the PS3 are gigantic piles of poo :biggrin:
The 50% number was for the first generation machines, the new falcon chip machines are closer to 7%. As far as the online community, you must not have much experience on Xbox Live. Live is the most robust, easy to use online experience of all the consoles. PSN is nowhere near as good, @Home is a disaster and Wii online is basically nonexistent.
I would argue that it is the most robust simply because of the amount of users...which benefited greatly from it being the first to be released of the 3 by a long shot. It also has quite a few really good multiplayer titles. I dont think its so much the quality of Xbox Live or the console itself that keeps people using it...I would say it has more to do with comforatability and the amount of FPS players that cant hack it in a real online community (The PC community)...
You are the exception. It took a couple of my friends over a month to have theirs done and shipped back.
hehe ok, we'll just have to disagree. pssst by the way... aside from WOW, PC gaming is on it's last leg.
You're probably right, but there's also the fear of PC gaming ... most console-only FPS gamers have it. I think perhaps they are afraid that their hands can't move right? Then again, for some of us, it's natural .. others have to work for it. It's the same way for a person who plays pc shooters and then tries to play console ... Also, who decided "Inverted Aim" needed to be on every game? We're not flying planes! And Goalie, you apparently don't play many PC games, or get involved in the communities that surround them. I'm not talking about ****ing WoW. **** WoW. What do you mean "on it's last leg" ? That doesn't make any sense at all.
I'm far too used to playing PC shooters, I can't play a console shooter to save my life. But give me a PS controller and I can navigate a menu like nobody's business. (Final Fantasy) :biggrin:
I really doubt PC gaming is on its last leg. I assume you are aware of the buzz surrounding Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. There has yet to be any console or PC game that compares to Quake 3 imo. That game/community was perfect in almost every way, and if they wouldnt have totally screwed the pooch with Quake 4 that game would be dominating right now too!
He means that lowest common denominator console gaming with clunky controls appeals to the bigger market of 12 to 15 year olds that dominate the game buying market. 12-15 year olds, and strangely, the rest of the console purchasing market, it typically not very savvy to technology, so the thought of computers and installing stuff and hardware requirements frightens them. The fact that console equipment is already dated technology the day it hits the market. Game producers are making games for old technology instead of developing for the next new thing. You make alot of good points Goalie, but if you think PC gaming is 'dead,' I'm going to have to disagree.
I think that fear comes from it being much faster than console FPS's. Going from shooting people on a PC to a console is strange...its like playing in slow motion. Console games are where all the campers from the PC world go because they can actually compete.
WOW, epiphany. This makes so much sense. I was having a short discussion with one of the guys I play TF2 with online, and we were talking about how there has been a recent influx of snipers over the last few years as far as PC gaming goes. It never used to be that way, almost all PC shooter games were run and gun deathmatch mayhem. Now you go into a server and they have capped limits on snipers because if you don't you have 5 screeching kids, yammering on their mics, and sitting in the back of the map plinking away with their sniper rifles. Now I know who to blame for this.
Thank you Halo and every COD game beyond the first. I say just to show them how real gamers play we throw them all in a Quake arena with some of the top players and teach them a lesson.
Dude, Golden eye didn't suffer from sniper syndrome. You were better off if you kept moving and shot as many bullets as possible.
Yeah you pretty much get what I'm talking about. Is PC gaming going to die off completely? No, no one is dumb enough to say that. But the truth of the matter is that it's harder and harder to make money off PC games (Except for anything Blizzard) The PC versions of games are becoming after thoughts. The PC market has shrunk something like 20% YOY for the past 3 years. The only stuff selling is WOW and casual game stuff like bejweled. Steph, no I don't really play many PC games anymore. Mostly because my job is now basically dedicated to console titles and I just don't have time now that I have 2 kids etc. I do have a new super gamer rig at work waiting for Diablo but at the moment it doesn't have a single game installed :ugh: :laugh:
