Tires to consider

Discussion in 'General Subaru Discussion' started by Musashi, May 3, 2004.

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  1. Musashi
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    Musashi Well-Known Member

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    I find it difficult to believe that the R32 would gain a full second on Tire Rack's tiny 30 second handling course, simply by swapping the R32's tires with those of the Evo or the Sti . As someone who has done a lot of autocrossing on both street and race tires, I think the improvement might be SOMEWHERE in the neighborhood of 0.4 seconds . Here is how I came to this conclusion...
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    The tires on the Evo and Sti are brand new and there isn't any test data YET to determine exactly how fast they are. In lieu of this, we are going to have to make a reasonable assumption about their performance in relation to other top street tires:

    Assumption 1:
    The Yokohama A-046 (Evo) and the Bridgestone RE-070 (STi) are as fast as the existing kings of the street tire world, the BFG KD and the Falcon Azenis.

    Those who autocross probably remember that when the Azenis was released a couple of years ago, it was touted as a "race tire" with a "street tire" threadwear rating . Well, when Grassroots Motorsports Magazine (11/02) tested the Azenis and the KD against the race rubber from Hoosier, Kuhmo and Toyo, the street kings got their faces dragged in the mud pretty hard . Here are the results from that test:

    Race tires:
    Hoosier 39.17
    Kuhmo-V 39.29
    Kuhmo-E 39.30
    Toyo 39.47
    Average 39.31

    Street tires:
    KD 41.01
    Azenis 41.40
    Average 41.21

    According to the above test, the average top race tire is 4.8% (41.21/39.31) faster than the average top street tire. So if our "Assumption 1" is correct, the tires on the Evo and the STi will be almost 5% slower than typical race rubber .

    The next question is: How much slower is the R32's Pilot Sport compared to the KD?. Tire Rack has not conducted a direct test between the KD and the Pilot Sport, but they have compared both tires against the Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico. Here are the results from those two tests:

    KD vs Asimmetrico
    KD 31.07
    Asimmetrico 31.41
    Percentage difference: 1.09%

    Pilot Sport vs Asimmetrico
    Pilot 30.93
    Asimmetrico 30.88
    Percentage difference: 0.16%

    Inferred difference between KD and Pilot Sport: 1.26% (approx: 0.38 seconds on a 30 second course) Yea, Yea, I know there is an extra degree of freedom in this type of indirect comparison, but it is a LOT better than Tire Rack's guess of an even "1 second".

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    The purpose of this exercise is NOT to incite arguements relating to the merits or demerits of these three outstanding cars, but merely to point out that Tire Rack's "one second" number is a very inflated guess. Even if the R32 gains only 0.4 seconds (with the best tires), the test still indicates that the R32's objectively measurable handling is one of the absolute best in it's price range.
     
  2. Zola
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    Zola Well-Known Member

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    Cliff's Notes? *yawn*

    LOL
     
  3. kickin_81
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    kickin_81 Well-Known Member

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    It's too bad they didn't test the RE92's against them performance rubbers. I'd like to see some real ass-whoopin'. Thanks for the info, Chong! My Azenis tires are audible when they roll, but not when they corner. Woo-hoo! :D They stick like crazy, and they've lasted me over 10,000 miles since I first got the car... and the previous owner drove on them for a lot of spirited miles.
     
  4. Musashi
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    Musashi Well-Known Member

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    Fong,

    I'm glad to hear that you were able to get that many miles on your Azenis........I wish I am that luck, I am on my second set, the first set only lasted for one season of track and street use. :D Best bang for the Buck }:):p
     
  5. Gspot
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    Gspot New Member

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    If only they came in 225/40-18 :(
    I'm planning on turning to P Zero NEROS next season.
     
  6. kickin_81
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    kickin_81 Well-Known Member

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    Kyle, you don't have any rubbing issues with your bigger and wider tires, do you? If you don't mind me asking, what suspension and wheel setup do you have? :)
     
  7. Substeroo
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    Substeroo Well-Known Member

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    where can I get those RE070's? I heard they are made special for the Sti.
     
  8. Gspot
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    Gspot New Member

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    stock suspension, 18 x 8in
    no rubbing at all
     
  9. yosmiley
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    yosmiley Subie OG Missin'In Action

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Substeroo

    where can I get those RE070's? I heard they are made special for the Sti.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    You can pick them bad boys for about $180 to $190 a piece.
     
  10. Yang
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    Yang Well-Known Member

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    RE-070's aren't hard to find, you can get them anytime during friday nights when Vic is to busy chatting with others, if you are good enough, you'll be gone in 60 secs :D.
     
  11. Substeroo
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    Substeroo Well-Known Member

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    That's alot more than the Yoko ES100's! I Wonder how THOSE compare?
     
  12. kickin_81
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    kickin_81 Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to hack this thread, but I have to.

    I am getting new tires for my OEM RS wheels: 225/50-16 Z-rated Kuhmo Ecsta ASX tires. My research on these tires found them to have high treadwear, quiet ride, comfortability, and above average handling for its class without any negative side-effects. I'll be riding on them by Saturday afternoon. :D Anyone know of these tires?

    Yia, did you already buy your ES100's? :?:
     
  13. Substeroo
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    Substeroo Well-Known Member

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    You mean NOah? :I

    I was looking at them but I have nearly brand new tires on as it is.
     
  14. kickin_81
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    kickin_81 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sorry, Noah. I was in a hurry last Friday, so I forgot who I talked to about tires. I have high expectations on these tires. They won't compare in handling with the Azenis Sports I'm selling off. }:)
     
  15. Yang
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    Yang Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kickin_81


    Yia, did you already buy your ES100's? :?:
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Yes fong, got the new tires, gonna put in on the tight rims tomorrow so I can look super tight for the meet ;)
     
  16. Musashi
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    Musashi Well-Known Member

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    Wish I could buy some new rims and sticky tires ;):p
     
  17. Substeroo
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    Substeroo Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Wish I could buy some new rims and sticky tires<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Just to look super tight for the meet. :D

    I didn't know you were getting ES100's Yia? They really seem to be one of the best out there. I don't know about tread wear though.
     
  18. kickin_81
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    kickin_81 Well-Known Member

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    A few of the reasons I chose the ASX's over the ES100's is because the ES100's likes to follow road irregularities and they have a lower wear rating than the ASX tires. Other than that, my 205/50-16 ES100 tires on my old GC has several thousand miles on them and the tread seems to have lots of life left despite the 280 wear rating. I should measure it with a penny and post it's mileage sometime.
     
  19. igofast
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    igofast New Member

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    My ES100's are about done. I'm down to 1/32 tread left thanks to an excellent trackday yesterday. Size:225/45-17 Total Mileage:~17,000, total trackdays: 4. The trackdays put a _lot_ of wear on the tire. When I arrived yesterday, I had about 3/32 left. I don't remember getting that kind of wear from other days(for instance, the first day I hit showed no wear), but I would estimate about 1/32 per trackday would be about right.

    Compliments: Pretty sticky, they're no R compounds, but I'm pretty happy with how they performed. I've never had any problems with water, even going back in the rain last night. Good wear, for me I couldn't see getting any less of a wear rating since it's a daily driver. Also, the sidewalls are really tough. I've hit a few curbs with them and they just soaked 'em up.

    Complaints: The tramming is aweful bad. Sometimes the car will be yanked to one side of the road following pavement seams. Noise is a little more than I'd like it to be, but not really bad. Some people have said that it gets louder with time, but I haven't noticed that. They seam to be nail magnets, I picked up two while having them.

    I don't think I'll get these tires again, not because I think they are bad, but I want to try something different. Some choices for me will be(given ~300 treadwear rating, AA traction rating, ~$100/ea):
    Falken FK-451(I wish I could go Azenis, but I would toast 'em in <1 season)
    BFG g-force KDW 2(may be too loud)
    BFG g-force Sport(new tire this year)
    I'll see what Kumho has to offer, but they have always gotten mixed reviews. I'll also see what Toyo has, but I have a feeling that they may be too pricy for my blood.
     
  20. jprice
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    jprice Well-Known Member

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    If you're looking for Toyos, check out the T1-S from http://www.edgeracing.com .. great pricing.

    Kumho MX are pretty good.. very sticky, downside is they can be a bit loud. (but it's all relative, ES100s are loud too! :) )
     
  21. android
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    android Guest

    I have the cheapest Khumos, being the Ecsta Supra 712s. My alignment is set up neutral for the track and I get tugged around by the road surface irregularities. The tires are pretty quiet contrary to what I've heard about them. The sidewalls seem a bit weak, but that could be my tire pressure (I need to check that). Treadwear is going as expected so I will probably be replacing them in the next couple years, unless of course I hit the track a few times this year or get a blowout. I really don't see the point in spending $200 per tire unless you have alot of money lying around or you really need that competative edge. Generally, you get what you pay for, but being a reasonable person, I know I don't need the best tires.
     
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