I have been thinking lately about the FXT and wanting to get some more ooomph until I can spend money and time on upgrades... I was thinking that we should pull together a meeting or get together with the brains on the OpenECU tuning stuff to maybe explain things in simpler form... You see when it comes to using my hands, it isnt an issue (3 kids already so you know I am good with my hands etc) but when it comes to brain stuff, like maths.. I am epic fail-man.... 1+1 = 2 most days to me but e=mc2 not my strong suit... hell I am still baffled with the airplane on the runway argument...ha ha until I see it done I don believe it fully... so back to my point... I think it would be good for some of the more experienced guys to maybe explain some more basics etc regarding doing this sort of thing... I am one of the ones that once I have been shown and done it a few times then I start catching on, but reading and comprehending your garble doesn't jive with whitey too much... any thoughts?!?!?!
I've been doing some reading and browsing over forums, and it seems that one would have to spend a fair amount of time to really get a good tuning foundation. I think you would have to really dedicate yourself to walking the path of a tuner. I'm so damn busy with grad school and full-time work, that I've decided I'll still pay the tuner gods to do my tweaking.
Here you go Toaster buy this http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780760315828&itm=4 Dan (Piddster) recommends it.
I agree with both of you... If I do a search on the opensource/enginuity/romraider sites with the questions I have, most of the time I find threads with unanswered questions. I have another, quite time, and mind consuming hobby, and I find a lot of the reading confusing. I know once I had the programs in front of me, I would understand better what is what etc.
Here's a question for you tuners...Could software be written to evaluate logs and create new maps? I realize that there are different combinations of timing, boost, fuel, that may create the same results, so there's some art to it. But couldn't a program interpret logs, compare data, and write a new map?
Yes a tuning forum/party hosted by us that want to get an overview. Free beer, food, and sex. Everybody over to TSTRBOY's house. But seriously, could the club organize a Tuning Demo?
My reptilian brain lacks the space needed to accommodate what would be necessary to get my head around all aspects of t00ning. Hell, I'm still waiting for a clear answer on what an ALK really does! I'll punt on t00ning for now and leave it to the pros. I might get that book though so I can pick up some lingo to BS about at Firestone. "...So, my MAF was xxxxxx and it caused my xxxxxxx to xxxxx...."
I belive the cobb streettuner program has some sort of auto-tune feature (once you have it in the ballpark) for some paramaters, but the info I could find on what paramaters, etc. was limited. That or it was a dream I had
That book does a pretty good job of breaking things down to understandable terms. One of those terms that I didn't understand for a long time is how necessary a dyno is to really knowing the effects your changes have to your calibration. One can get the fuel pretty decent based off what other people have done and seems to work well. However, there's no other real way to get your timing where it should be without empirical data to back up the changes you make. You need to be able to compare runs back to back. The little bit we did on Ronnie's dyno proved that. Four degrees at 14psi gave something like 20hp. How else would I have known that and been able to compare to the previous run at different settings? All I can say is read up, acquire a good working knowledge, and experiment. I know dyno time isn't cheap. You can do a fair amount on the road (which can get you into trouble btw) but it takes instrumentation to get it right. A G-Tech Pro helps, but isn't the replacement for the ultimate tool. As far as software to do it all for you, it would be seriously tough, IMHO, to have an algorithm adjust everything. The amount of logic would be insane. It would have to compare so many things, have ears, a prior working knowledge, among other things. I dunno. Find someone to write it and you'll be a millionaire.
Yes There are some members on this board that fiddles with OpenEcu also. And there are some who would like to get into it also. It would be a good idea for this 'Tuning Get Together'
^^^ I also think this would be a good idea. Even if it is just a lot of explanations. I mean, I am not looking for a free tune at all, but didn't someone in the last administration say something like, "It takes a village to raise a tuner?" I just hope if this happens it is sometime I can make it up to the Cities! Wait a sec, whenever this happens I WILL make it up to the Cities.
Like said above, one "session" isn't going really teach anyone a whole lot except the very very basics. It's taken me quite a while with lots and lots and lots of reading to really understand how to tune using openecu But, you have to start somewhere...
Well, here's the problem that I see: Everyone is coming from different backgrounds. Each person likely to attend something like this would come with different knowledge of how how a FI engine works. Some people aren't going to know what timing is, and some people are going to know exactly what IAM means to a Subaru. There is some basic knowledge that everyone would need to have to make an educational session worthwhile, because without that knowledge, we would have to start at the very basics. However, I certainly can understand that having someone answer your specific questions is a very powerful tool. With that said; if this were to happen, it would have to be more of a Q&A session, with the interested parties coming to the session with specific Subaru tuning questions, and some working knowledge of RomRaider.
that's a step in the right direction.... get all who want to attend to a basic knowledge level then sit and pick brains of the tooooners
Yeah, about the only thing I could think of actually organizing would be walk-throughs for the basics. Things like pulling your stock ROM, flashing, and logging.
that book is great. I just finished reading it and it really shows a ton of stuff and is pretty easy to read. Some stuff in that book is a bit comlicated but most of it is ok. I say everyone who wants to have this get together first read this book cover to cover and then we could set up a time where we all get together and have someone knowlageble explain openecu tuning. I would even pay for a lesson.
I'll answer any questions in exchange for free sex. Wait. Who's providing this free sex? I think ignition timing is the one thing that having a dyno would make much easier. Everything else seems to be no problem doing on the road. Certain things like wastegate tuning you're better off on the road because the load put on the engine is unrealistically high on the dyno.
We talked about hosting an event like this at Grimmspeed last fall. Never happened. Should be combined with a BBBQ, and a projector connected to a PC will be needed.
i would be down for this. If this were to happen, what would be need from everyone that would be attending this? Would we need to bring a laptop with the software on it? Any type of reading before to get a basic background?
Yes, and yes. I'll come as long as beer and food is provided. Well, at minimum you would need to bring a laptop with Romraider installed and working, and a copy of the stock ROM for your car (can be downloaded from the OSecu forums, requires registration).
First session would probably cover basic stage 2 tuning stuff like injector scaling, boost tuning, looking for knock. You could spend weeks talking about timing. We could probably argue all day about tuning modded injectors.
Agree that certain things are best on the road like wastegate duty cycles and what not. Somethings can only be done on the road like tuning for variances in intake air temp. I have to deal with that since I'm running in speed-density. Timing is one of those things that yes, you can make changes on the road without blowing up your car. But whether those changes did anything for you is pretty hard to know. Did that degree of advance do anything? Should I add another? It takes empiracal data from a HP/torque measurement to know if those changes are good. A G-Tech Pro can show you plots of what is going on. It would be a helpful tool. I like to use a dyno to get someof those last things done that would otherwise take ages. Of course, this is like, my opinion man
Its not necessarily about math. It about knowing the theories of what is going on and being able to analyze data to make changes. You don't really crunch numbers. Being able to see trends and reading plots and a spreadsheet are key.
Oh! But when I was watching Nuke to a bit of tweaking it looks very complicated because I had no clue where he got the numbers from to input them in.
...I don't need your effing sympathy, man, I need my effing Johnson! Tux, just do some homework. There is plenty of literature to help you understand what is going on. That book posted earlier got some of started in being able to be comfortable making changes to our calibration.
But that is math in a nutshell. My experience is this -- read EVERY thread on the enginuity (or whatever the **** it's called now) message board, and then read them again 3 more times. Then do that again.
PERFECT... best way to start.. tuning may be reaching too high, but starting at basics and getting to understand those processes is what I am looking for etc...
I agree, an "Intro to RomRaider and Logging 101" course would be a great resource for some people. In addition to flashing/pulling ROMs, explain a few key logging items and how they relate to each other. Learn to watch for signs that your car may not be happy. A $79 Tactrix cable can be a powerful tool, even if you don't plan on flashing. Showing people what to do with it, as well as doing some Q&A on entry-level, non-tuning related stuff, could be helpful for some people looking to just get a start. I can even help with some of this stuff, at my current level I'm not too educated in the tuning side but do plenty of logging and analyzing my logs.
Show users how to also use the Airboy Spreadsheet and some of the spreadsheets & tools available at romraider, to help those who want to begin tuning.
i don't know anything about rom raider but i can help with tuning theory. Unless someone wants to know about setting up a Link, but doubt it. PS, my new Shadow(HTC Juno) is the bomb.
I've been thinking of doing something like this for a while now. But didn't know if there are any interest. I did this to some of the Evo guys using open ecu. Once we're all set up again(remodeling) if there are still people insterested, I'm willing to help.
I can't stress enough how much having Zyklon help face to face when I flashed my car helped. It seems very intimidating at first but a few hours of help and it makes so much more sense. The airboy spreadsheet is invaluable when your trying to analyze logs.
Are you shuffling everything around for better access? I'll have my ignition sorted out soon for another crack at it.
I just received my book that was linked in this thread.. I hope I can get my head around it as I need a tune to sweeten the toaster till I can mod... they say 40hp with slight tuning stock.... now to buy a cable...
