Turbo back exhaust feedback

I have only had my 2004 WRX for a month and a half and I am new to Subaru in general. I am looking to install a turbo back exhaust and would like some feedback if anyone has had experience with these different brands. Here is what I am looking into right now.

Up pipe: SS Helix w/flex
Down pipe: SS VRS w/flex
Rest maybe: 3" SS Injen or Invidia

This will be my first upgrade. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for any help.

 

A turboback will make a world of difference. I don't know anyone with Helix and I've never heard of VRS....bikerboy has an Invidia turboback on his STi though.

Are you going to bring the car by Midway this weekend?

 

Welcome to the club, Deborah. I can't directly tell you how big an improvement the exhaust system will free up, but you'll get a better exhaust sound and a better flowing engine. If you would like, add onto that an ECU reflash from Cobb or Vishnu (under $500), and your engine will wake up like a bat out of hell. You could do the reflash by itself, and gain about 20+ hp.

 

I have a TXS uppipe, and if I had to do it again, I would have gotten one with a flex, so I think that's a good move.

Uppipe will reduce your EGT's and free up ~5-15 hp(depending on who's measuring). Downpipe will free up a little more hp, and the rest is more for the sound.

My opinion, just do the uppipe and spend the rest of the money on suspention bits. The car already goes fast enough(I say as I look at my shiny new bling bling headers and shop for a TMIC).

 

I have not been any where with my car yet. Where in Midway? Near Porky's where the classic cars hang?

 

That would be the place.

 

If I am putting on different parts will it be a problem to hook up a piggy back to the ecu or do a ecu reflash?

I have been talking to Brian at S Three Performance in Loretto, MN and have been getting some info from him as well. He is the one who suggested the VRS dp w/flex since he and another guy have them on their cars and are happy with them. He knows some one who sells Injen exhausts and said it was a good product. I am considering Injen and Invidia because they both come out at an angle at the rear bumber because they take the straightest path back with minimal bends for better flow. What are your thoughts?

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

I have not been any where with my car yet. Where in Midway? Near Porky's where the classic cars hang?
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FIRESTONE LOT just down the street of porky's. You'll find the subarus there especially the <font color="red">RED</font id="red">and White One . See you on Friday

 

gaitedgirl~

I just have to say I agree with matt... the invidia turbo-back is, IMO, the best way to go. I have had it for a year now and the welds are awsome, I noticed HUGE power gains, and it looks and sounds amazing. As for the uppipe...to save money, just gut your stock pipe. All the research I have done said that the hp gains from an aftermarket up and gutted up are just about the same. Just be careful when you gut it...it NEEDS to be completely cleaned... the last thing you need is stuff flying into your turbo. So, that's just my two sense on this topic..but I'm sure whatever you pick will be great!

BTW...I want to welcome you to the club...girl to girl! =)

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy


carpe duem (sp)
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carpe diem = sieze the day
caveat emptor = buyer beware

...and for a bonus:

illigitimi non carborundum = don't let the bastards grind you down

(that last one's fake)

 

Deborah Vaia aka UBH Tech,

Welcome, glad u made it, I see that Todd was able to give you our url.

Chong

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

If I am putting on different parts will it be a problem to hook up a piggy back to the ecu or do a ecu reflash?
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If you plan on further modifying the car after an initial tune, then go with the UTEC. Most of the WRX guys here use the UTEC for it's tuner-ability. If you plan on stopping after putting on all the powermods to your current turbo, then go with a Reflash. It will smooth out your powerband using the best fuel map designed for your mods. Just send out the ECU to Cobb or Vishnu and you'll get it back in a week or so. It's easy power due to the natural restriction of the factory fuel map.

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kickin_81

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

If I am putting on different parts will it be a problem to hook up a piggy back to the ecu or do a ecu reflash?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If you plan on further modifying the car after an initial tune, then go with the UTEC. Most of the WRX guys here use the UTEC for it's tuner-ability. If you plan on stopping after putting on all the powermods to your current turbo, then go with a Reflash. It will smooth out your powerband using the best fuel map designed for your mods. Just send out the ECU to Cobb or Vishnu and you'll get it back in a week or so. It's easy power due to the natural restriction of the factory fuel map.
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I am not sure what else I will be doing since I am just starting. Sending out the ECU and not having a car for a few days to a week will put me in a bind on getting to and from work unless I get my motorcycle license.

S Three Performance has given me info on a place to start since I was clueless when I started looking into all of this. It was a bit overwhelming on where to start and what to get. No one is pushing to sell anything because you can order stuff right off the net as well as going through any shop. I have talked to others there who come into the shop who have WRXs and they have been helpful as well. I am just taking in all the info I can get. I don't want to rush into a purchase and regret it. No what I mean? Who wants to throw away $$$?

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

Deborah:

I have an Invidia tbe on my STI and like it alote. The TIG welds are awsome and fit and finish is nice as well. If you come down to university on a Fri. or Sat. night I would be glad to give you a demo.

Just be careful as some cat backs dont work with certain downpipes. Just post here and we will point you in the right direction.

I would avoid up-pipes with flex's in them they will limit your flow just as much as the cat. Look for something larger than 1.65 in the ID as you dont want to restrict flow.

Make sure you look into the CEL fix for both the rear O2 and the EGT in the up-pipe. We again can help you here and tell you what you need from Radio shack.

And I am always willing to help.


Matt
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The SS Helix w/flex UP has a 2.25" piping diameter and a cnc machined bung. Seems to be big enough for future upgrades.

The SS VRS DP is a 3.0" with a bellmouth and flex. Seems to have a good combo. Doesn't come with a CEL fix.

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

IMHO

SS VRS DP: for the money they want for that thing I would spend the extra 50 or so you can have the Helix or a little more you could get the shinny one (Invidia). The welds look not so good and their bell mouth design is hardly a good attempt. Look at the first 12 inches of the Invidia, Turbo XS pipes you will see the difference. The trick is to taper the 4" mouth smoothly over at least a foot down to the 3".


http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=subaru+helix+downpipe&btnG=Search+Froogle

279.00


http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=invidia+subaru+downpipe&btnG=Search

319.00

You need stainless in Mn. with the winter and if your going to bother doing the DP you should get the 3".


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I would never consider anything but stainless (SS) in MN. I'm only looking at 3" SS exhaust parts.

Thanks for the links. I have looked at both options about a week ago, but then the flex option on the DP was thrown into the mix. From what I understand the flex helps relieve the pressure from the flanges so less chance of cracking under pressure of hard driving.

If I went with the Helix SS flex UP and DP I believe the Invidia or Injen exhausts will bolt up with no problem. I am leaning more towards the Invidia anyway so far. I also believe if I went with the Helix SS UP the Invidia DP and Invidia exhaust they should all bolt up no problem as well.

 

I just picked up the Helix 3" DP and Bosal Twin Tip cat back, its full 3" stainless. I will have it installed weds.

 

just another inquiry about the flex uppipes, what if you're aim is autocross? Is there really that much of a problem with a nonflex pipe? What's the problem anyway, movement causes bad seals?

 

I had the same dilema when buying my pipes. Flex or no Flex? What's the big deal:???:
Well, here's what I've learned:
The stock up-pipe is actually bolted on to the engine by a bracket. What little play or engine movement there is during frequent hard acceleration also moves the exhaust, keeping it from twisting just that little bit (supposedly).
Most (if not all) aftermarket up-pipes don't utilize this bracket or the place it mounts. What this means for aftermarket exhaust is that when the engine revs hard the exhuast won't directly move with it. For some, this could lead to stress at the connections/seals, thus causing exhaust leaks.
To those who believe this could be a big problem, flex-pipe is the answer. While they may restrict a little more air with their corrugated sides (similar to the intake hose at the MAF), they allow for a little play and take the load of the exhaust seals/gaskets.
As for me, I have the Scooby Sport up-pipe and it does NOT have a flex-pipe. I figured with the OEM gaskets and still good condition parts I shouldn't have any problems. Scooby pipes also match PERFECTLY with the stock turbo & pipes, that also helps.
So far the first 3500 miles are tight- no leaks that I can hear. I don't rally my car so I decided this would be right for me.
Most of what I've learned are from my friends at Morries and the Subaru Technician(12+ years of service)that helped me with my car.
Anyone feel free to correct me if they have different ideas.
It's almost as difficult of task as to which ECU upgrade you want, isn't it?

Ryan

 

Heh, heh. What I meant is that no aftermarket up-pipe uses the engine mount bracket or the same place that this bracket mounts to on the engine. I'm sure every up-pipe has a 5 stud flange going to the turbo, it would be silly not to.
As for the "two brackets", my '02 stock up-pipe only seems to have had one bracket (2 bolts). It was located an ~1" down from the outlet side of the pipe opposite of the temp sensor bung.
Maybe there are more on different years or models... ahem STi?
I think the lack of this bracket on aftermarkets helps push people towards getting Flex pipe. It didn't work on me however. We'll see how things go.

Ryan

This pic of my old up pipe illustrates why I only see one bracket. The one I couldn't find on any non-stock up-pipes.

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl

 

even though that vendor should know what his product is like, they do have a tendency to embelish their own products to sway your decision, so just because he says he hasnt had a problem doesnt say much, but that is just me being skeptical, they could be great.

i am inclined to go with Matt because he knows what he is talking about....most of the time

Ben

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PHATsuby


i am inclined to go with Matt because he knows what he is talking about....most of the time
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When it comes to cars and driving, Matt's a great resource. If you have questions about women, stay away from him. :-p

 

I'm going to have to vouch for this. I went to a rodeo with a girl a few weeks ago and the night before Matt suggested that I pull a "rodeo" of my own with her afterward. Needless to say she was not happy.

 

install day at Matt's?

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gaitedgirl


I just talked to SGPRacing out of Houston,TX and the guy I spoke to said the bellow at the flex is larger than the rest of the pipe to allow for the flex and not to restrict air flow. He said it is all 2.25" ID all the way through. He said they don't have any problems with leaks on this product. He is putting this and the rest Invidia on his girlfriend's wrx wagon. I am leaning towards this set up at this point. He did speak highly of Invidia and Injen as well.
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Although I would not discount what he said, I cant say that I have seen their uppipe in person to verify that that is correct. I have been lead astray before and been taken advantage of when ordering parts.

Sounds like a plan let me know when you get the uppipe I would like to take a look at it.

M
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I talked to another place and the guy said he actually measured the Helix flex pipe ID and said it was just under 2" by about an 1/8th of inch. The flex area is 4" or a bit more in total diameter. The piping diameter is 2.25". Let me know what direction I should go as far as using flex to give the exhaust some movement to relieve the stress from it or not to use any type of flex. If not using any flex what will be the long term affects on the UP and the rest of the exhaust? Leaks? Thanks.

 

My MRT up-pipe has the same ID as the Helix up-pipe then. Just about 1/8" under 2" while the rest of the exhaust is 3" after the turbo (MRT turbo-back). If you don't want leaks at the connections, buy exhausts with extra think flanges. There is much less of a chance that tightening them bolts will bend them. My MRT exhaust has just that.

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kickin_81

My MRT up-pipe has the same ID as the Helix up-pipe then. Just about 1/8" under 2" while the rest of the exhaust is 3" after the turbo (MRT turbo-back). If you don't want leaks at the connections, buy exhausts with extra think flanges. There is much less of a chance that tightening them bolts will bend them. My MRT exhaust has just that.
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I am planning on going with Invidia 3" after the UP. I am just trying to figure out what to go with for an UP. Helix w/flex or something else that doesn't have flex. I keep hearing that going with flex gives the exhaust a bit of movement under hard driving. What to do????

 

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bikerboy

Get the Invidia TBE and get the Helix with a flex and we will see what it looks like. If you dont like it you could always sell it.

I actually bought two up-pipes, I have the large Dia. Perrin on the car and I also have a spare APS up-pipe as well. If your going to be around this weekend I can bring it with for you to see the difference.

M
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Will you be down at Midway tonight or tomorrow night? Bring the goods with. Chris and I will try to come down tonight on the bike (weather permitting). Bad weather tonight we will try for Satruday night then.

 

Out by delano and loretto there are a couple good options. at S3 off of 55 they ahve a custom (handmade) muffler that gives a REALLY low tone on subarus and also give about another 10hp above performance mufflers. also theres a place called jeff-x. they do a real nice job on exhaust. my buddy had 2.5" all the way back and it was only like 200 bucks. just some more options for ya

 

Dynapar, I live 3 miles away from S3, but I have never heard of Jeff-x and am looking to get an exhaust on my 03 sedan. Do you have the phone # or a website I can check out? Also, do you remember which muffler it was that sounds good on scoobs? Georgio makes 3 or 4 diff. types of mufflers.