Long story short, I purchased a CPO Subaru in January 2015 from a Subaru Dealership (for now, I will not name the dealership, however it is not in the metro area). I thought I really lucked out, because the salesman I worked with was the previous owner of this vehicle (owned it from brand new until it was turned back in to the dealership he works for). I felt more comfortable buying knowing this guy knew every nook and cranny of this specific vehicle, and it's history from the day it arrived from production. When I purchased it, I was aware of two issues: the seat bolster ripping (SoA took care of that with a new seat cover) and a nasty door ding on the rear passenger fender (I have just left that alone for now). After i purchased the vehicle, I noticed that the front bumper started to flake it's paint, particularly on the passenger side. I chalked it up to Subaru's not-so-stellar paint. After about 2 years, I finally saved up and lined up a repainting of my bumper. I dropped off the vehicle yesterday, and as the bumper came off to get cleaned up and prepped for priming and paint. The findings on the bumper however, included bondo, and a very bent impact bar with no impact cushioning. I called the dealership, explained the experience to the manager, and then received a call back from the salesperson himself. At the end of the conversation, nothing more came from it, other than a verbal apology, and a story about a "bump" in a parking lot with plowed snow/ice that punctured the bumper and was repaired by a local body shop. He told me that it was likely that the autobody shop was taking me for a ride (I know my autobody specialist well, and fully assure that this is not the case). My major concerns: I put full faith and trust in the purchase that I was being sold an honest vehicle that would be safe for my family. I went to the dealership to avoid any "surprises" as I have experienced this in the past. Being a CPO vehicle, how was this missed? This issue ultimately affects the potential safety of vehicle I daily drive, and that I put my family in. What I would like to know: What do I do next? I have spoken with the dealership at the managerial level, and the salesman (who was the original owner). I have a letter drafted to send to Subaru of America, but have not sent it yet as I have been communication with the dealership/salespeople involved. I am still getting the bumper repainted, but I did not budget for a $300 replacement impact bar. Everything else appears to be intact and good. If this is truly the only issue, the impact bar can be ultimately replaced. What would you do next? I've said it before, but I really appreciate any advice or insight that can be offered. The Minnesota in me feels bad, because I am not one to raise a stink, or cause trouble to others if I don't have to. I'm go with the flow, easy going, and overall an optimist, assuming the best in people (always trying to Golden-Rule-it). The salesman was great to work with in the transaction. He claims to have no knowledge of the impact bar's bending, and I do want to believe him. But this does not feel right, and I am sick to my stomach about the situation.
So it's one of two things: 1. This guy is lying. 2. The shop you took it to, having no prior knowledge of an accident, decided to intentionally remove the impact cushioning and forcefully bend an impact bar to ****, which by sheer stroke of luck on their part happens to correlate exactly with a previously undisclosed accident the last owner knew about but didn't think to mention. Which do you think is more likely? Proceed accordingly.
Have you talked to the GM of the dealership? I understand you are easy going, and don't want to rock the boat, but this was undisclosed damage, that was blatantly covered up. Give the dealer the chance to pay for the repairs, and if they want to play hard ball, you'll have to decide how far you want to take it. I'm easy going as well, but if somebody tries to screw me over, especially if it could put my family's safety in question, then "MN Nice" goes out the window. The threat of a letter to corporate can go a long way, depending on how important the dealer takes their CSI score, and how much they value public opinion. I think if you have the salesperson openly acknowledging that there was an accident, and it wasn't disclosed, then you kinda hold the cards. I'm betting this was his demo vehicle, and the dealer did a quick fix, and got him into a new demo. I'd be interested to know whether the GM was aware of the incident or not. Good luck.
Its obviously too late now but when buying used cars I trust a private seller 10x more than a ****ty dealer. I don't know why some people feel more comfortable buying a used car from a dealership but unless they are giving you a warranty you are just overpaying for the same or worse car than you would get private party. (especially if the previous owner was slimy sales guy who was trying to sell you the car.) Used dealers are notorious for fixing things as cheaply as possible and not disclosing issues, not to mention how often they put modded cars back to stock and don't put the stock tune back on it. I know its a stereotype against used car salesmen but it is an accurate stereotype in most cases. That job attracts a certain type of person. As to what you should do, you should talk with the management of the dealership and try to get them to pay for the fix. Legally you might not have anything to compel them to make it right but if you are firm and emphasize you were deceived by the salesman/previous owner who ABSOLUTELY KNEW what the condition was when lying to you to make a sale then they might help you out. If they had been honest up front about the collision they likely would have gotten less $ from the sale, it is more than fair they pay to fix the thing. If they make it right I would be that ****ty salesman is paying for it out of his paycheck lol. Serves him right.
Dealerships and salesman will dig into their lie until they wear you down into believing them or until you walk out. Since this was a CPO vehicle, I would go directly to Subaru of America. No way should it have been certified with either the damage history or what sounds like a quick and woefully inadequate fix. You already talked to the dealership and the salesman and obviously nothing came of that opportunity for them to volunteer to make it right. In my opinion, they don't deserve another chance.
Two and a half years after you bought the vehicle...I'm surprised they even talked to you. CPO means nothing. Supposedly the car gets all sorts of inspections and worn items replaced. Supposedly. Do you think someone from the manufacturer looks over the car once the dealer gets done inspecting and working on it? The higher price of a CPO car just goes to finance the longer warranty the manufacturer offers on the car. You really had two strikes against you going into this. First was the salesman looking to make a sale and secondly HE was the previous owner. If you ask around, car owners will lie just as much or more than dealership salespeople (most likely he lied twice...when he traded it in or sold it to the dealership and again when he sold the car to you). He knew about it...at least what caused the repair to have to be made in the first place. It is possible that the shop that fixed it for him did a slap-dash job and pocketed the extra cash from not fixing it the proper way. And who knows their autobody specialist well unless they are cracking up cars left and right or are related to said specialist? You're gonna get nothing from the dealership at this late date...maybe two and a half WEEKS after you bought it...maybe...but not 2 & 1/2 years later. Write the letter to Subaru of America since this is a reflection on them and their reputation...it being a CPO car. Will they do anything? I doubt it, but writing the letter will make you feel better. Rather than just sending the letter to the "company", get a person's name and send it registered mail. Without it going to a specific person it is very easy for the company to just ignore it.
I appreciate all of the feedback, and definitely am hearing you all out on all fronts. @pillboy I totally hear you. At this point my hopes of restitution is pretty low. This car has been in my possession for 2+ years and I am discovering this now, as it got bad enough for me to want to do something about it. However, as a brand rep, and someone involved in the community, it was incredibly disheartening. I do think writing the letter will help as a reflection to that, and hopefully gain back some faith. The registered mail is a great idea. I do have the name of a few contacts at SoA through the Ambassador program that I will be sure get copies as well. The worst is this feeling of deception and being taken advantage of because I am a seemingly young guy, who was very excited about finding a vehicle that checked off the boxes for our needs. @SurlyOldManMN , @sneefy, @Nhibbs, @pillboy and @housemusic1 , I appreciate your feedback as well. In my naiveness, I think I assumed this guy was an enthusiast as well, and seeing his replacement (older MY) Forester all fixed up, I didn't have any reason in my mind not to just trust his word. I figured he was guy that I would in another context probably still have a fair amount to talk up on the car front. Needless to say, my business will go elsewhere in the future, however I do hope that something positive will come from the situation on their side. I will send out the letter, and reach out the General Management tomorrow morning. Funny enough, I'm not sure how, but I got a text from a salesperson today saying that my new vehicle will be ready to be picked up Thursday. When I informed him he had the wrong number, I was able to get the GM's name from him. Not totally sure what happened on that or how this other guy got my number, but I digress..
****ty all around. Best of luck to you man. I used to sell cars, and unfortunately, this situation doesn't surprise me at all.
Umm, you can't bend a bumper bar from just sliding into a snowbank, unless you were going way over what you should be doing in a parking lot. The wife did that in her Fusion and cracked the hell out of her bumper cover, but that's it. Just my .02.
I also find it very off that it was damaged so badly by a low speed impact. It would take a lot of force to bend a crash beam and I would think the airbags had gone off also. It's too bad situations like this come up and give sales people a bad name, we're not all out to get you. Ultimately the dealership should take responsibility for this. I know we would at Minnetonka. Mike
I feel for you dude. We all like to have faith in our fellow man, but the truth is most of them suck...especially when money is involved. We all have to find out these life lessons and the sooner you do the better off you will be in future dealings. From what you've shared with us (and hopefully you don't discover any more issues with the car), it appears this lesson came with a somewhat manageable price tag. It's hard to not let something like this sour you on the whole human race and make you suspicious of every negotiation you have going forward. The take away from this is that you cannot inspect a used car enough. Take along a knowledgeable friend and put as many eyes as you can on the vehicle. Most cars have enough visible clues to at least hint at their previous life experiences. It could be worse...you could have found out your wife has herpes 2 & 1/2 years after you married her.
Normally, I'd recommend applying 5 gallons of gas and a road flare to the car, but in this case, I'm going to make a change: Put the salesguy in the drivers seat, apply gas and road flare. Extinguish the ashes with piss. Seriously, douchebag move on his part to pull that off. It sucks that you're finding this out now, hopefully you can run him through the wringer a bit.
Fixed for you. But no, this is super ****ty all around. You would wonder if the CPO sticker was fudged by the sales man or he asked one of the techs to "overlook" the bumper incident.
Retaliate. Maybe stop short of a felony. Maybe not. As mentioned earlier, arson is definitely a possibility. Sorry to hear, J.
At this point all you really have left is the letter to SOA and the impact it might have on the dealership's CSI score. That weighs pretty heavy, you'd be surprised if they don't try to offer some compensation. Probably won't offer to pay 100% but you never know, and yeah drop the name of who the letter is addressed to at SOA for good measure. Let us know what becomes of this stink.
JuStaWRX said: ↑The worst is this feeling of deception and being taken advantage of because I am a seemingly young guy, who was very excited about finding a vehicle that checked off the boxes for our needs. Semen-ly young guy.
Haha, thanks guys. I have spoken to the new car sales manager (who was working when I called), the seller/salesman, and left a voicemail yesterday morning for the GM. If I don't hear anything back tomorrow by noon I will call one more time and give the GM an opportunity to hear me out, and hopefully offer some sort of resolution, and then the letters get dropped in the mail. I wondered, too, if who ever gave that CPO label was helping do the salesman a favor. With the end of the month's pay check I will be ordering the new OEM bumper bar with cushion regardless, but hopefully with some reimbursement. FWIW, the paint job that was done turned out awesome, so at least right now the front end looks great! Lessons are continuously being learned for sure, and I am also being reminded of how great the [local] Subaru community is and has been in fixing this. I'd be lying if I told you I hadn't thought about selling it (of course with full disclosure) and looking at Another FXT, XVs, Tacomas, and WRX wagons again, but I shall resist... for now. More to come soon I hope.
I would consider it a public service if you'd share the name of the dealership, perhaps not the name of the salesman.
Some interesting reading. One has a video for those of you who don't like to read. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/subaru-certified-pre-owned http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ly-inspected-and-repaired-as-you-might-think/ http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...much-can-you-trust-a-certified-pre-owned-car/ https://www.cars.com/articles/pros-and-cons-of-buying-a-cpo-vehicle-1420683378685/
That's why new cars are always the best way to go. No cons with a new car. None at all. Especially nothing that rhymes with appreciation.
Private party sales all the way. And just assume the previous owner is lying and is dumb so double check everything yourself. Basically the problem with buying from dealers is people put too much trust in them doing the right thing and then also pay thousands of $ extra.
I figured that would surface eventually. There are a variety of posts over the past two years, but figured I'd wait in this one until the dealership had some time for communication.
What would you do next? Find out what vehicle is his at the lot. Pop a squat on his hood and drop a steamer on his windshield.
UPDATE: Still no word from the dealership/GM since my initial conversation with the floor manager and salesman/previous owner early last week. I waited until the end of the week last week to hear from them, and when I heard nothing, I contacted Subaru of America. I contacted their customer services and filed a formal complaint, while submitting photos of the bumper (pre-paint), and of course the bumper bar. Because of the purchase being 2.5 years ago, they ultimately decided that this was something that needed to be resolved with dealership directly. However, they did provide a coupon for maintenance work or accessories as a good faith gesture. I am grateful that SoA offered this. I was nervous that this would be their response, and it would just be a hands up the air situation. I am beyond disappointed and disheartened by the dealership and salesman. A lot of lessons learned, and a dealership that I will never bring my business (nor that of family or friends I if I can help it) to again. With the coupon I plan to order the impact bar replacement, and have it installed. Thanks again for the thoughts on the matter, and hopefully this can serve as a reminder, as previously stated, of the importance of thorough pre-purchase inspections on pre-owned vehicles. In the mean time, the bumper looks great and matched perfectly, so now it's time to get an impact bar ordered.
Coupon in hand? SoA had promised me a coupon that could be used for future service as partial restitution for a failed rear wheel bearing that I had paid to have replaced. Premature bearing failures had caused them to warranty the part for 10 years or 100,000 miles. Mine failed at 70,000 miles, but was over 10 years since the car was put in service. I contacted them, explained the situation and felt really good that they were going to go the extra mile for me. Nothing ever showed up. Just saying.
I have also had good luck with SOA. Had issues with condensation in my tail lights on my brz that I learned after the fact was a problem that many had and was a design flaw. However SOA still sent me a $500 parts/service voucher for my displeasure.
I'd have to say. This is a perfect case of a car not being sold AS IS without warranty. This a gentlemen who is a representative of the dealership that lied about a un-disclosed damage. Talk to a lawyer strait up. Being MN Nice only gets you screwed by them. Get ahead of them. I'm assuming you have evidence of the check-list inspections for a certified pre-owned. If it's not disclosed in there that this individual knowing knew that the car had been wrecked previously and wasn't repaired within safety standards "That bar is meant to be there by safety standards" . Then that is illegally especially if it's a being sold with a warranty. Talk to your insurance company too. See what they say about the situation. I'm not expert, but this sounds illegal. I know an HR representative can be sued along side the company in cases due to being a representative of the company. See he lied to make a sale under-false pretense knowingly covering up a unsafe road vehicle "That bar is supposed to be staight, how do you know if the airbags are working ect...". If that caused someone to die in your car.. IE the airbags didn't deploy. That is a clear cut case of involuntary manslaughter. Hope this ramble helps you to realize that this is not okay and you need a lawyer. 2 1/2 years doesn't mean ****. Remember that the man sued toyota for sticky throttle from a car in the 90's recently and won.
