Car: 2001 2.5RS Mods: 4EAT to 5MT swap, 17x8 5-zigen's, HO alternator+beefy wiring - basically bone stock. Also, I always have about 150 extra pounds in the trunk. Budget: $1000-1500 Goals with car: Kinda fuzzy here. It's my DD, but I love to drive it spiritedly. No tracking yet - keyword: yet. Like the twisties and on-ramps especially. When in the country I love taking twisty roads and doubling the "recommended" speed. Love screwing around in the snow. Right now the car feels kinda soft and twisty. Lots of flex on tight corners. In fact, I'm inclined to think my back windshield being cracked is from the flexing. I want the car to feel solid, to be able to shoot it through turns like an arrow. I think I'll be okay sacrificing some ride comfort, but I don't want the car hopping off the ground every time I hit a crack in the pavement. Within this budget I am getting exhaust - cause the suby just sounds so much better with some rumblez. Thinking Borla replica headers, heat-wrap, and a cat-back (maybe Borla hush - will depend more on what's for sale used, though) Looking for an exhaust that will be deep and grumbly and not terribly loud at low RPMs. If it's really loud at WOT I can live with that - just don't want to be attracting tickets when cruising around town. As for suspension, I'm not so sure. But here's what I'm thinking: Front & rear sway bars (looking at a Whiteline 21mm front and Perrin 22mm rear) Endlinks (looking at a set of front & rear Whitelines) Cowl/fender braces (anyone know a good E-bay one or local custom?) Tranny mount (mine is JUNK - needs replacing) - maybe engine mounts too - looking at a deal for Group-N tranny, engine, and pitch-stop mounts together. Master cylinder brace front & rear strut tower bars (already on the way - I know they might not do too much, but they were cheap and cannot be bent by standing on them - also, considering the extra weight in the trunk and the flex I feel thought it couldn't hurt). My tentative suspension upgrade plans are partly determined by the fact that everything I've mentioned so far I can install myself. Also, if I run short of funds, I can simply leave a piece off for a few weeks until I find a better deal/round up some more cash. Of course, I maybe should consider buying a "big" suspension piece now when I have funds and I can pick up the < $100 pieces like one per pay period or something since they are cheap. Springs, shocks, struts I don't know much about and don't really know how to install. Am I making a big mistake leaving these out for now?? What would be some good but inexpensive ideas in this regards? I'm not interested in "slamming" my subie, but if it dropped an inch I'd be okay with that. However, I don't want to land myself in a position where I throw on one piece and cause another to fail right away. There are a few FS STi pinks on NASIOC right now. Should I be considering that? Any comments or suggestions you more experienced folks want to make are welcomed! Thanks.
Oh yeah? Interesting. How much of it - headers, cat-delete, mid-pipe, muffler, tail-pipe? Can you be sure it will sound good? Maybe PM me or something. And when you say ground control are you talking coil-overs?
ok.. did you here my Foz? 02blubrus wrx? 2.5~RS's n/a exhaust?? I built headers for Martin but I am not too keen to jump on new ones for a bit... cat-back I could do easily.. depending what look and style you want would determine the costs.. I would also have to reset up my accounts due to selling the shop a year ago and letting them lapse... but this wont be services I offer till the new year once the house and workshop is set up ground control are semi coilover style... you use a standard style strut and add the coil-over setup/slip ons... not the cheap style like on hondas... Mike Wagner put some on his wrx wagon after having done a standard upgrade on his other.. and preferred the ground controls more.. and was pushing me to do it too... still may... just not wanting to spend that sort of money right now.. but may just go and buy it all new and enjoy
I don't exactly recall what the Forester sounded like, but I remember it being nice and throaty. Unfortunately, I'm unlikely to wait until the new year, unless I have a tough time finding a decent used catback. Impatience is a virtue, right?
I'm running Ground-Control springs on my car, and I like them a lot. 250 lb/in front and 275 rear. on stock shocks. I'd recommend some KYB AGX struts to put under them. allows some adjustment to dial in your ride. and yea, get yourself an ebay unequal length header and have an exhaust shop build you an axle-back without a muffler (what I'm running now, borla-style header, stock midpipe/cats, stock resonator, no muffler, sounds badass!)
^^^ What kind of dough would Ground-Controls and KYB AGX's take? Sounds like it might be above my budget.
I think the ground controls are about $800ish and then struts or run the stockers.... cat-back could had from about $230 onwards depending on muffler style etc
Yeah - I kinda need a new tranny mount - I could go with a OE WRX one or something, but the Group-N used isn't too much more. And I'm pretty well set on a rear sway bar - then it's like, well, kinda need end links too, and then it's not as well balanced so through in the front. By then my suspension budget is pretty well eaten up. Ground Controls and KYB's sound like a great goal for next summer, though. Phase 2 of the upgrades. Any chance at all of you putting together a cat-back this year?
possibly in December.. hoping to be int he house in 4 weeks.. but I still have to get the workshop wired up after passing occupancy and taxation assessments...
x256498486321 Don't forget to get an alignment after all those new suspension bits. Also some rear camber bolts would be a good investment. Also Paranoid Fabrications has fender braces for cheap. Here's the link:http://www.camotoy.com/products/cowlstay/index.php.
Hoping to do both. It's shaping up like this so far: Rear sway: $120-150 Front sway: $120-150 Front & rear endlinks: $120-150 Tranny & engine Mounts: $110 (purchased) Fender Braces: $50-80 Front & rear strut tower bars: $90 (purchased) Suspension total: $610-730 Headers: $250-300 Heat wrap: ??? Cat-back: $300-500?? Exhaust total: $550-800 + HW
Heat wrap will cost ya 55 bucks at MA for a 2"x50' roll. Same roll will cost ya 45 at checker. Alignment isnt necessary for the parts your changing.
a few of the parts your looking for to upgrade are the same parts i'm running on my 99 rs.... i have the kyb agx's and believe me they're nice being able to do some adjustments when you want. cusco front and rear strut bars... dunno how much they do, but they were on the car when i bought it. for exhaust its a borla header, stock cat section, custom catback to a magnaflow muffler. i love the exhaust sound... noticeable but not to loud at low rpms, but really wakes up at wot. i've never actually heard any of tstrboy's exhaust but i've heard really good things about em, so you might wanna consider getting the header and running that for a few months and then having tstrboy hook it up for you. and if you keep your eyes open i've seen from time to time basically a quick strut set up on rs25.com... usually agx's with some lowering springs of whatever brand... i'v seen them anywhere from $400 to $600 used
I would wait to mess with geometry at all...I definitely put that below "the nut behind the wheel" in the list of things to upgrade ground control springs are about $400 ( www.ground-control-store.com ). AGXs are similar (haven't done too much shopping around, since I need to mismatch the sets. tirerack.com has what I need for about 400...but you might be able to get a matched set elsewhere for less). IMHO, you can't beat GC springs and AGXs in the bang4buck category. why heat wrap? this I don't understand (I'm not an expert...but I've got an N/A car with exhaust and no wrap and no problems). I'd leave off the fender braces for now. IMHO that extra 50-80 would be better spent towards the better suspension. also, a custom cat-back shouldn't cost that much. I had a basic axle-back made here in Duluth, paid extra to have them put a flange in there, and still barely cost $100, INCLUDING a cheap muffler. But seriously, check out my videos, that's a header and no muffler. 100% stock cat- and mid-pipe and no axle-back. cost me $200, and sounds insanely mean. if it's too loud, have a shop make you a straight pipe to shoot it out the back.
Okay. So, I bought the RSB. Whiteline 24mm adjustable (22-26). http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1629909 Whiteline says this is for 03-07 WRX, and a suspension part fitment thread on NASIOC said it will fit but needs upgraded sway bar mounts (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18820009&postcount=7) Then, I see in a couple places that 04+ rear sway bar mounts will work (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums//showthread.php?t=1613360) which seem to be these: https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=1230 Does anyone know for sure that this will work? As for heat-wrap, idk - has been recommended and thought with my SPT SRI it might keep temps down a bit. I'm not set on it necessarily, though.
as far as suspension goes ive got a 99rs with 02 wrx re-packed struts and swift springs..super stiff but ive got the stock ride height of a wrx..ive also got a front upper strut tower bar and an h-brace and an 04 sti rear sway bar. stock header with a 2.5inch custom magnaflow catback.
I've also heard (and it makes sense...) that the wrap traps moisture and anything else that's on the road (like salt), and induces rust on the piping...leading to premature failure.
well let me get my $1.50 in here. first off a RSB is one of the best suspension mods you can do to the RS. I put a 20mm (02 WRX sedan) on mine and it really brought it to life, but not too much as to make it too rear happy on hard corners. I would consider mine neutral handling now. With a 22-26 bar your car will be tail happy. As to how tail happy I am not sure, but it will tend towards oversteer. http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/sway/sway.html For the rest of the suspension AGX struts are great. They run about $100 a corner and are built pretty well. I have heard of people using them to do stage rally on a budget before and they hold up. Also they have a decent warranty. For springs GC coils are great! You can get them in what ever spring rates you want which is a huge plus. I would look toward the rates that Chux mentioned as they are stiff enough to improve handling but not too harsh as to ruin DD ability. check out this website for comparable spring rates. http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/spring/spring.html The strut bars would be the lowest item on my list. I have F&R. The front does help keep the wheels planted and is noticeable on dry pavement. however it also has a negative effect on snow/ice, it will lead to more understeer on ice under hard driving, not as much of an issue as the FSB but still an issue. the rear does pretty much nothing noticeable. I am sure that it helps in a minor way but I would go for springs before a rear strut tower brace. Fender braces are supposed to be a big improvement. I have a set of Jnorth85 ones that I havent installed yet, but I have heard very good reviews for them. I know Justin and Fuji have these as well. You should go over to RS25.com and check out reviews on fender braces. As for exhuast. I really like the work that TSTRBoy does. I have a 3" catback he made for me and it is the best sounding suby exhaust ever. He also made me a set of headers, which are great. I have noticed that the distance to the collector is a bit off on them, which kind of messes with the rumbles. However I am sure that if we did it again we could nail it (FYI: distances to the collector is 18" and 36" on brolas) I would definitely skip the exhaust wrap. It will do nothing for you being NA. You will gain nothing and have an issue collecting salt and water in there which will lead to faster rusting. I have to do a group project now. I will add some more info later.
Wow. Thanks for the detailed info. I'm kinda planning a mild FSB increase to balance the large RSB. Like maybe 22mm with endlinks. Seems like that might lead to a good solid setup. All my info is just what I read right now, though, so someone who's actually driven a few setups feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Strut tower bars I was kinda jumping ahead of myself (yeah, I do that). Might not order again if I did it over. Oh well, they're on my desk right now, so at least I'll get to see what they do all by themselves, if anything.
If you are just doing mild upgrades you DONT want a FSB, it will make the car push like crazy, ask me how i know.
thanks for the kind words Martin.. yeah those headers were the first ones I attempted and wasnt really that keen on doing it.. ha ha but once we got going it was fun.. definitely would have been better having a better idea where it all normally runs etc and lengths...
No problem, you do great work. When ever you are ready to start doing exhaust stuff again I have some stuff I want done. Also I didnt do the research on the header lengths until after you made them. Just good info for future fabrication. back on track. It was said that the GC springs are really good and they are. It was also mentioned that they were kind of expensive, $800 for a set it a pretty penny for some springs. You might just look into drop springs. I am running STi V5 Pink springs and they are amazing. You loose the ability to adjust ride height, but you can also save $500-$600 dollars. Prodrive or Eibach springs work really well and give a good stance for about $250-$300. One issue with lowering the car is that you will most likely rub on your tires. You will need to consider getting your fenders rolled. I believe Chimera Performance offers a service or tool for a good rate. When I put in my Pinks I had rubbing issues (205/50/16 on Stock RS 6 spokes) even with the AGXs on max settings. I had to pull the fenders to fix it, not I can clear my 225/45/17s on 17x7s. Since you are now a master at working on a Subaru, you should have no problem putting in suspension stuff. Swaybars arnt too bad, struts and springs are also pretty easy. There are a couple tips and tricks to it but not much else. If you do take the struts off you will want to get an alignment as you probably wont get it dead on.
Um .. yeah .. I'm hardly a master at working on my Subaru.. But none of the suspension stuff looked all that tricky. I was surprised when I went to Jeff's after the tranny swap and he said everything was still on. And I am not looking to drop for the sake of dropping. I wouldn't spend a dime dropping the RS unless it was for a handling/suspension benefit as well. I had heard STi Pinks were a common choice for the GC's. I thought I saw a couple sets on NASIOC for like $200 or something. Much benefits for that kind of $$?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12006426#post12006426 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18688730#post18688730 Might be some info there - not sure how much on the Legacy though
The majority of aftermarket springs are lowering springs. you can the handling benefits of stiffer springs along with the advantages of a lower center of gravity. it is hard to find full length stiffer springs. It can be done but you will most likely need to order them direct from GC or a spring maker. I think you need a swaybar from an outback. I asked this about a 96 wagon awhile ago over on LSI or Legacy central, outback was the answer I got.
Even with that big RSB it still pushes/understeers pretty hard? Hmm .. may have to reconsider that FSB then. Anyone else running a big FSB with an opinion?
Great info, Martin!! couple additions. but don't copy me exactly. the suspension geometry on my car is different than newer subarus which is why I run a stiffer spring in the back. you'll want a softer spring in the back than the front. but yea, the ~250 lb/in range is a great combination of stiffer handling but comfortable ride. these are just about at the limit of what stock (or equivalent) dampening can handle. I'm running on stock shocks/struts, and the ride is pretty comfortable. ...is NOT what they cost.....$399 + shipping. if you shop around, you can get GC springs AND AGXs for all 4 corners for about $850, and have a much better setup, with the same adjustability as full coilover setups costing twice as much (Megan Racing and Tein come to mind...). if you're running <300lb/in springs, get the longest springs they offer (9", IIRC.) I'm running the medium length springs, and have to have the perches adjusted pretty much all the way up to get to the ride height I want. I have about an inch of adjustment between the top of the adjustment sleeve (which is like 4-5" long) and substantial tire-rub.
What about the extra weight in my trunk? I run with like 100-150 pounds more back there all the time. How should I pick suspension components to compensate for that? Would I want stiffer springs or softer? I assume I'd want more/stronger/quicker (not sure what the best term is) dampening too?
If I wanted to maybe buy some KYB AGX's and Ground Control's new, where would be a good place to shop (website)? Any recommendations. Is this what Id be looking for ($116 Tirerack.com): http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...r=2001&autoModClar=&partNum=734007&perfCode=S
Also, what else would need to be done or should I do if I go that route? Harder strut top mount rubber or whatever? Camber bolts/plates? Anything like that?
I picked mine up on Ebay for about $405 shipped or so. That was a pretty good deal but it may come up again, you just have to look. Otherwise $116ea isnt too bad. I have heard mixed reviews about harder strut tops. I have heard that they do offer a noticeable difference but I have also heard that if you are going this route you might want to consider going to camber plates. Although both Group N top hats and camber plates WILL make your car have a bumpier ride. look around in this forum and do some searching for the topics you are interested in there should be plenty of info. http://www.rs25.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9 One thing you might consider is getting a new drivers seat. When I picked up my V4s, I was shocked at how much of a difference it made in handling by just keeping myself more planted in the seat. Granted RS seats are better than L seats but there is still a large improvement to be had. Its is nice to take a hard corner and not start flying out of the seat, lol
^^ lol. Leather is slippery. I love my interior, though. idk. Tough call on the seat, but I'm sure it will only get worse!
