i have a Helix in my WRX and am now getting close to buying one for the LGT. When shopping uppipes I have noticed big differences in price and construction. Is there really that much difference between a used STI pipe for $60 and a cobb one for $225? and everything else in between? I am only taking the LGT to stage 2.
I went a step cheaper and picked up a used wrx uppipe and gutted it. Twenty bucks well spent i think. But yeah back on topic i dont really see there being that much of a difference except for fitment. I remember seeing a thread on nasioc a while back where they dyno tested a gutted wrx uppipe and a name brand catless and there was not difference at all. Personally i would say go with a new grimmspeed uppipe, that is if the fitment between the wrx and the LGT are the same. They look great and if i wouldnt have got my uppipe a while ago i would have definatly bought one.
if you are comparing stock up pipes (wrx gutted, Sti) versus aftermarket, the bigest differnce would be the inner diamater.
my erz uppipe was a pain to install- however, it flows plenty to make the power i want out of the car (i'm sort of detuned yet in favor of longer engine life). I doubt there is a difference that is meaningful between any of them with the kind of power you are going to get near.
read this to learn mucho.... http://www.iwsti.com/forums/engine-power-performance/101214-stock-up-pipe-more-serious-look.html
I gutted mine and it made a noticable difference to the spool and a noticable difference to my wallet, nothing.
+100000000 for buying a grimmspeed up-pipe. I have been through the thread that Justin just posted as well as the thread Buschur had on nasioc that prove a well designed up pipe is worth it. Grimmspeeds up pipe and pnp'd header with x pipe are my next mods.
the thing is to me- can you easily make more power than you think your internals can handle indefinitely with any decent uppipe option? i think the answer is yes... so why worry about it?
What the hell does that mean?!? I can blow up a completely stock engine with just a crap tune on stock boost if I really wanted to.
I just threw a Grimmspeed uppipe on my broke engine last weekend. Fitment was good, I will try to post up a pic up when I get the chance. In my down time I have PnP'd everything I can... headers, cross pipe, uppipe, turbo.... In round two of my engine being out I am going remove my TGV's and PnP them along with my all my intercooler pieces. Now I just need to get my engine working, ha ha.
i'm not suggesting a crap tune- i'm saying that i wouldn't trust my internals with a perfect tune and more than 300 whp (to last indefinitely). I did a lot of research reading posts and talking to well known subaru tuners to come up with that number. I know many people feel otherwise, but it's hard to argue that there isn't such a number at some point with every motor, right? imo if you can get to that number with relatively low boost with a cheap uppipe- why not use a cheap uppipe?
I think I misinterpreted your other post. So you are suggesting that above 300whp, then the design of the uppipe becomes more critical? I would agree with that to an extent. My position is that if a part (such as a better uppipe) will help improve VE at high power levels, it will improve VE at more "reasonable" power levels also. Then the question becomes the age old question of "is it worth it?"
It seems to me, after reading a bunch of the posted info, that the UP can help improve spool up, even if your goal isn't gobs of power. Even at lower power levels, getting to that point sooner has to be a good thing. Stuart.
ya- that is entirely true and where my argument sort of falls down... You definitely need an improved uppipe of some kind. I'm just pretty dubious of how much better one can be than another of the same size (and both catless etc.). Maybe there is more to the design than i can appreciate (similar to headers?) but i cant see the physics behind that... if one could allow you to spool a little bit quicker and have a "faster" car without running quite as much boost- it could promote longer engine life and be well worth a few extra $$
for are forgetting a big point here....metal quality and product fitment. there are so many cheap ebay up pipes out there that fit like crap and give you tons of leaks which in turn force you to spend extra money on gaskets and what not. also, alot the cheap up pipes have milde steel flanges and flex joints. not to mention alot of the welds are crap and break. there is a reason the cost of making ours is more than most of the cheap up pipes go for msrp. and trust me, i've probably seen/played with more cheap up pipes and more quality up pipes for that matter than anyone on this board.
that is very true as well- so far so good with my cheap one as far as that stuff goes. However, as soon as anything goes wrong it would quickly be more $$$ total than buying yours to begin with
definitely. honestly, i was all about the cheap exhaust pipes before because, well is just a pipe right?....well that was until i started doing alot of installs and personally seeing horror stories about fitment and leaks. this is when i converted to the nicer quality stuff..in the long run you are better off.
also coming into play in making my opinions here is my subaru's status as my "cheap" winter beater. If i were modding a newer, nicer? car i would be more likely to spend more money on little things like that. However, i'm not all that inclined to think that any subaru is really worth true high dollar parts (not that i don't like subaru) i'll save the stainless custom exhaust etc. for my mercedes- but what else can you buy for 10k, throw $2500 at end up with double the hp... -drew
As long as the pipe is the same diameter as the outlet and catless, there isn't much else it really needs to do. Better materials will help with corrosiveness, and heat retention, and that's about that. Flat flanges and flex joints are needed to maintain the seal between the flange and the mounting points. If the pipe maintains the seal, is catless, and made of decent material, you're pretty much good to go regardless of price. I bought a cheap/used godspeed UP for $40 from a member here. It's stainless steel, has really nice tig welds, pretty thick flanges, but lacks a flex joint. It'll technically flow better than an UP with a flex, but I risk loosing the seal if everything flexes enough to unseat a gasket... plausible, but not that likely. The major gains would be from headers. If you're just changing the UP, you're still using the factory exahust manifolds (which I've heard flow pretty decent). But in the end you're not going to gain as much thermal efficiency replacing just the UP as you would replacing the entire path between the exhaust ports and the turbo, especially if we're talking about non-catted models like the sti and 06+.
I remember Buschur Racing testing their Up-Pipe with the STi's up-pipe. They stated it makes somewhat of a difference. But then again I am just TUX
I replaced mine with one made by Bosal. It is the flex type and looks like stock minus the sensor and cat. The flexible type ones may not flow as nice as the solid ones, but they are much easier to get a good seal on. Nathan did mine, it looked like a lot of work. My $0.02 is to do the downpipe at the same time. You will be removing it anyway.
Well I would agree with the exhaust part (ie, up, dp, catback). However, the addition of a new turbo will typically also require new injectors, a new fuel pump, and (if you are really lucky ) a new gearset. Then there's all of the extra tuning that will be required on top of that. So suddenly your < $1k little upgrade project suddenly jumped to anywhere from $2-7k. :eek3:
^^Is it worth it...thats the reason for me starting the thread. The uppipe itself...totally worth it, and I am going to put one in along with a downpipe. The intent of the thread to Justins point is the value in a $200 up pipe vs a gutted wrx up pipe. I think from what I have read so far...I'm not so convinced. Input has been terrific. Thanks Will this fit on my Legacy http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=190186082768&_trksid=p3984.cSELL.m315.lVI
I have a brand new Megan Racing uppipe with gaskets and studs that I ordered from Slowboy Racing a couple weeks back. There were some problems with it getting here in time for an engine install, so I picked up a Grimmspeed pipe while the Megan Racing pipe was in transit. I was just planning on sending it back to them. If you want it, I will just sell it to you for the price I paid for it, minus shipping. Quick and easy without the hassle of internet ordering. I was planning on taking some pictures of it along side my grimmspeed pipe this weekend before I send it back. It comes with new studs and gaskets and seems like a pretty decent pipe. I am using the Megan Racing downpipe and couldn't be more happy. Here is a link to the pipe at Slowboy.... http://www.slowboyracing.com/estore/home.php?cat=4613 Let me know what you think.
i'd do it for sure- also i'd def. get one with a flex. beyond that it's up to you what quality you think you "need"
^^I want to see if I cant get the ebay one for noticeably less first. Also, the slowboy racing site does not list an 05 LGT as an application for this piece. Same motor, shouldnt be a problem..right?
An aftermarket, catless uppipe will save a bit on MPG in the long run (assuming your driving style doesn't change) and your car will be easier to tune.
