Hey guys. I drive a 02' WRX. I've owned it for about 2 months, and have been looking into lowering it in a couple months. I'd like to go for eliminating most of the wheelgap, But keeping it functional, so wherever that breaking point is. (I plan on running 235/45, on my BBS STI's ) Xluben's car is a great example of what I'd like, Maybe a notch bit lower. He's stated that he's on springs. So any input or help would be greatly appreciated! *Don't worry fellas, Not looking to hella flush stancenation the wrx *
I know Xluben is running the Eibach pro lowering kit. To get much lower than that you will need to go with a coil-over set-up. Are you just looking to lower it or increase performance?
I'm aiming for a little bit of both, but it being a daily I'd like a setup that'd be comfortable for my setting. Nothing too stiff, or anything too bouncy. Any input on how the eibachs ride quality ?
I had eibachs for a few years with stock struts - felt pretty good and comfy, maybe a bit on the soft side for track/autocross. No problems using them with the stock struts, but an upgrade there wouldn't hurt you.
This is how mine sits. It feels pretty soft to me. Still on stock struts, but I don't know how long they will last.
Yeah I'm leaning towards those springs. What struts do you guys reccomend? And is there anything else I should invest in, Cause I heard about the saggy butt stuff with subaru suspension being lowered on springs. Btw xluben our cars look very similar, so the reference of pictures of your wrx is greatly appreciated!
Yep, eibach's or Mach V's, or Swift Springs all do not have too low of a drop. RCE Blacks are nice too, but a hair lower. Do some searching on Nasioc...there are several threads with pics of scoobs on springs. Remember, the 02-03 wrx's have different rear struts and top hats than the 04-07 WRX's. Be sure to clarify the spring fitment before purchasing. If you buy 04-07 springs, you will need a scooby921 spacer in the rear (google it) and 04-07 rear top hats. Or, you could use 04-07 rear struts with 04-07 rear top hats. 02-03 and 04-07's have the same front struts. BUT, sedans and wagons have different front struts. If you put wagon front struts on your sedan, you will gain negative camber (more negative camber), which is generally a good thing for our understeer happy subaru's. Any negative camber less than -2 degrees (like 0 to -2 degrees) should not cause uneven tire wear. And struts will also have a big impact on your ride (almost more than the springs). How many miles on your current struts? If they are under 80-100k miles, you could use them and they would ride fine. Over 100k, I'd look into new struts. I'm a big fan of Tokico Dspecs (which only come in 02-03 wrx sedan fitment), but they are getting to be hard to find. Koni inserts are another great option for a DD (these go into your existing housing...some cutting required, but it is not terrible). Another option is new "stock" struts...KYB Excel g's can be found new for cheap (like $300 or less). I wasn't a huge fan as I thought they were a bit harsh, but others like them. Saggy butt spacers: these are more necessary for wagons, and not as often for sedans. Check pictures of other sedans with the springs you pick to see how saggy they are. Or install them without spacer first, and see how saggy it is. Spacers are easy to add later (but I would add the spacers before getting your new alignment). Which brings me to the next important point...after you install the new struts/springs (and saggy butt spacers, if desired), you need to get an alignment. You can wait a week or two, but it needs to be done.
Thanks for the heads up! With more research I'm kind of leaning on just saving up a little more cash and doing a full coilover setup..
It really depends in what you're going for. A good strut and spring setup is leagues better than cheap coilovers. If you want to slam it or go for best handling available, go coilovers. Others there are plenty of spring options for the drop you want and plenty of strut options for a decent ride.
After the car is payed off, I'd like to track it. (Reason being that I don't wanna blow it up when I still owe money on it, and I don't have a proper DD, Cause this one is mine.) So something that would be appropriate for track usage down the road. Oh and of course upgraded bushings, sways, and all that fun stuff.
Ultimately, it is up to you. But coming from my experience, I would strongly recommend struts (koni inserts are probably best option for the money) and the springs of your choice (RCE Blacks should get you to the height you want). Good coilovers are going to run you $2k+, and you also shouldn't run them during our winters. Plus, when you are going to start tracking it, you will learn a lot more by starting on a stock setup (or close to stock) before jumping to coilovers. I've been racing for years now, and I'm still no where near driving my STI to it's full potential. Edit: I forgot to mention, this might be a good "in-between" setup for you: http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=82/CA=90 That will allow you to run koni's, a larger variety of spring rates, and some adjustability on your ride height. It won't break the bank either. If you want coilovers, I highly recommend these from personal experience on my 08: http://www.racecompengineering.com/...g-tarmac-2-coilovers-for-wrx-sti-2004-07.html But, as with any car advice, I always recommend doing your research, getting multiple opinions, researching more, and then make your own decision on what is best for you
Wow thanks for all the help full information! You're definitly right, I think I'm going to get a spring kit to start out with & coilovers down the road once I gain experience on the track... I'd also would be interested in running a setup with my stock struts ( for now ). Do you think that'd be an issue with some spring kits? If so, I'd definitly would invest in a set of some new struts. As for the actual spring kit, I'm looking at a couple choices. 1) Tien S.Tech's // It offers a good lowering amount, and from what I've read over the Web it's a good ride, but the lowering amount on stock struts is a issue over time. 2) Tien H.Techs 3 )Prodrive Springs 4) Eibach's (Ones mentioned before) So if anyone has any experience with these springs please let me know! Any help full input or personal experience.
1) Tien S.Tech's // It offers a good lowering amount, and from what I've read over the Web it's a good ride, but the lowering amount on stock struts is a issue over time. Avoid like the plague. These slam your car way too low for springs, and there are lots of crappy counterfeits in the market. 2) Tien H.Techs Better than the S-techs, still fairly low. I had a buddy that ran them on his wagon without issue. Slightly saggy butt, but it was an 03 wagon. 3 )Prodrive Springs Awesome spring, but good luck finding them (they are discontinued). If you do find them, they will likely be high mileage and likely to break. 4) Eibach's (Ones mentioned before) Yep, not a bad choice! You might want to look into Tanabe springs also, as they have 3 different options. I don't have any experience with them though. How many miles on your struts? Under 80-100k miles, you'll be fine.
The mileage is currently 133k. Unless the struts were changed, I'm pretty sure they're at 133k. So I'd rather not deal with the headache of my struts blowing. I'm doing more research due to it bring a little slow today at work. What's your opinion on a coilover set that's priced around 900-1000$? , I'm looking at a set of D2'S, Or BC's. I'd definitly be okay with waiting a couple months to save up. Considering I do daily it, and it is Minnesota, I'd probably look into throwing some anti seize on the threads and such , and possibly just switching back to stock setup in the winter.
here's a place that still sells the prodrive ones, don't know if the sti springs will fit on the rex though. http://www.theboombopshop.com/Prodrive-s/2056.htm
Kenny another option to look into is if you can find someone selling 04 STI suspension for reasonable. Look into it though, some people like them, some don't based on spring rates and Valving on the struts. If you find some that have been re-valved by Feal, those are apparently a real nice combo. I've also seen a lot of positive reviews on the RCE springs as well. TMF threw out a lot of great info, definitely spend some time reading up. Here is a good break down of spring rates and drop amount from a lot of different manufacturers http://files.jdmvip.com/SubaruFast/technical reference/spreadsheets/NorthUrsalia.com Spring Rate Chart.html
yea, at 133k, your struts are pretty much donezo. Perfect candidate for Koni inserts though. Personally, I am not a fan of the cheapo coilovers. They do not ride or handle that great, and they probably won't last long. Some say..."Run the BC's, but upgrade them to swift springs! Makes them awesome!" I find that boloney because it really is the quality of the valving of the shock, not the springs, that makes the difference. If you do go to coilovers, yes, either swap to stock for winter (alignment required) or invest in some protecting sleeves for the coilovers (or make your own). Coilovers are definitely no ideal for winter driving/handling though. And I forgot about those Prodrive springs...my last message was referring to the Prodrive "blues" which are the ones no longer in production. I don't know about the differences between the "reds" and the "blues" though. The STI springs will fit on the 02-03 wrx, you just need 04-07 rear top hats and scooby921 spacers for the rear struts.
Didn't know they have a new version... I had the original ones back in the day, and they were quite low... Like almost too low for springs on stock struts.
Yea, those were like s. tech drop. The new ones on their site says 1.25 inch drop for front and 1 inch rear with 195 spring rate all around. But I just barely place an order for some Epic Engineering springs from rallysport. Hope I wont regret it.
I ran those Epics at one point too lol. I ran them with kyb excel g's, and I thought the setup was a touch firm. Nothing terrible, but just rough enough to be annoying on city streets. I primarily blame those struts, as others found the excel g's rough too. I then switched to Dspecs, and it was much better. Still a hair firm over small bumps because the Epics have a linear spring rate, but it wasn't bad at all with the Dspecs.
Yea, was researching and read a lot about them being a little stiff/firm but wasnt too bad. Im going to put them on my stock strut for now until they go out and hopefully by then I can save enough for new struts. Would KYB AGX be a good choice? Or should I just get Dspecs? Thanks for your input though.
I ran AGX on my old RS. I liked the set up overall. The fronts are 8 way adjustable and the rears were 16 i believe. They were paired with STI springs. The were a bit stiff on the streets even on the softest setting but not terrible, they were fun going out on a curvy road and doing some spirited driving. If I were to get struts again and go the adjustable route though, I think I would go with D-specs. I've read and heard a lot more positive reviews on them.
I'm a huge fan of the Dspecs because they have a big adjustability range (much softer than stock to darn near coilover stiff yo) and they last a long time (lifetime warranty for original owner). The problem is that finding Dspecs is becoming very difficult. I only have a little experience with the AGX's, but they were pretty good as well. They don't go quite as stiff as the dspecs, but still a great all around strut. Koni inserts are another fan favorite, although I don't think I've ever driven a car with them or even rode in one. These also are very adjustable, but there is some hacking required to insert them.
Ill look more into it when I come closer to getting new struts. Was thinking of Koni but dont want to have to deal with all the hacking.
Low + functional is tricky. It's not something you can really do while retaining standard struts. You really have to look into a coilover product that has a shorter overall body length AND one that retains a high amount of total usable stroke (two things that typically contradict each other). Yes, this means things like AGX and D-Specs are out of the question. Both are designed like the stock struts, and the strut bodies are too long to go low. With short springs, you'll just end up with no bump travel and a crap ride. You'll be no better off than chopping springs and staying with stock struts. Either way, the suspension setup will be largely non-functional and bottom out ALL THE TIME. The second part of this is ride comfort. Most coilovers are very, very stiff in comparison to stock suspension. The spring rates can be double or even triple stock. With high spring rates comes high damping rates too. All together, you get a rather stiff ride. Plus, you still have to set up the suspension right to actually function decently. Good suspension set wrong will ride like junk. These cars inherently prefer high ride heights and glorious fender gap. It's just a byproduct of their design. You have to deviate moderately from stock and know what you're doing to both get low and good results that you'll actually like. For reference, I've owned by the AGX and D-Spec struts. I'm also now on coilovers with a 2" shorter body length. I've been low on soft springs, low on firm springs, tall on soft springs, tall on firm springs, and at the end of the day the goal is the same. For a functional suspension, you need a shock with a usable amount of stroke (AGX, D-Spec, Koni inserts, Feal inserts, coilovers, whatever). Without stroke, you have nothing to work with to soak up bumps. Some cheap coilover sets can be kind of bad in this regard. Proper setup of said suspension requires you to properly set the resting ride height at a place where the shock has a good amount of bump and rebound stroke. For example, let's say the stock strut has 6" of stroke. You want a spring of a length and spring rate mix that will place the static ride height somewhere in the middle of the stroke range. A good position for uneven roads is somewhere around middle, so you have 3" of bump travel and 3" of rebound travel, so the suspension can soak up bumps, fall into dips, and the chassis ungulate about without ever lifting a tire or bottoming out. On bumping roads, you might even opt to be higher, say 4" of bump travel and 2" of rebound travel. The reasoning behind this is based on how the strut damping is designed. Most comfort geared damping has very soft damping in compression, meaning it will move quite freely and use up bump stroke. Rebound damping is much higher to control chassis movement after bumps, but very little resists the tendency to bottom out. Having more bump stroke helps prevent bottoming on bumpy roads. Hey, that sounds good right? Yeah, it rides great that way. What's the downside? Well...you'll basically end up at stock ride height or taller to get it. For example with my D-Specs I run at 16" fender to wheel center, aka greater than a fist sized fender gap, BUT this places the ride height roughly in the middle of the stroke range of the D-Spec, high gap, awesome ride. For reference, no fender gap = sitting on the bump stops. I'm not kidding. You have ZERO suspension travel at no fender gap. You're basically riding around in a car that's always bottomed out. You can imaging how well that rides. At the end of the day your best solution is to go with an aftermarket coilover. On a budget you won't get something amazing, but you can get something that will lower your car and still work. What do I suggest? Unfortunately I have not used these products personally, but I value the moderate level of user feedback that exists with these products. The two brands I'd look into is Fortune Auto and Stance. For a value coilover, these seem to represent the best in class in terms of build quality and function.
Thanks for all the heads up guys ! The information and tips and advice really narrows it down alot! As far as what I'm going to do, I'm not 100% sure. But I'll post up my setup once I get a few personal priorities out of the way.
@Back Road Runner All very good information. I don't think the OP should run into strut travel issues because he was talking a mild drop. Another good solution for regaining strut travel: http://www.racecompengineering.com/index.php/racecomp-engineering-camber-plates-lowering.html
I went through a bunch of suspension setups before I settled. I'm super picky also. -BC coils: they bounced all over the place. Regardless of what setting I was at, it felt like crap. -Koni yellow/epic springs: I love this setup. But the koni were still a little to soft. Ride height was perfect. -JDM Spec B Blisten Rev A: great setup, felt great, not too harsh and not too soft. Should of never got rid of it. Waited 2 months to get these. could use more low. -Teil Flex/EDFC: current setup. So far its all of the setups I used to have combined into one. Best setup so far. only flaw is I can't mount my EDFC since my rear struts sits too close to wall supports.
Spring rates were whatever they came with. I believe they were 8/9. The flex is 16 way adjustable and it is set at 9 both front and rear. The rear should be upped a bit. Its a little soft back there.
