Which is faster? 2, 3 or four paddles?

As I was leaving the M.A.N. event someone was yelling out "It's not even a Manual."

So it got me wondering, is a Manual transmission the best option for going fastest for my car? And why?

Or would an Automatic with two paddles, one gas and other other a brake.

How about an SST with four paddles, two on the floor and the other two on the wheel?

Where's my experts at, help me understand this phenomenon.


Oops I forgot to add the fifth paddle, that's the most important one of the bunch.

 

There have been a few articles on Jalopnik about this over the past year or two. I did some google searching but couldn't find the specific article about the one that I want. Sheen and Brian are correct. High End Sports Cars have the transmissions setup to an insane response/performance level. This is done without using the standard stick shift option.


With that being said I don't think I could ever drop the feel of the manual stick shift. There is just something about driving it that makes me feel in control.... which makes me feel faster. I have tried a few paddle shifters, I just am not a fan. Don't get me wrong, I think they are the best idea ever. It allows you to keep your hands on the wheel, keep in control and react faster. I think if I had the funds to put some insane gear system in my car I would love it... but since that will never happen. I will be a loyal fan of the stick shift.

 

I couldn't tell you how sad I felt when I heard that, little old me with limited knowledge about cars. I dislike bullies!!!

Mr. D would it be safe to say from your response that even a very tiny .0001 oz bit that possibly having a stick lever in your hand could create a false sense of faster-ness?


So can we say feeling fast and going fast are the same thing?

 

That is 100% what I am saying. It "FEELS" faster. There is no way that it is faster. I mean you have to take your hands off of the wheel, clutch + shift + clutch + gas. Not only is the process slower, but the driver reduces the amount of control they have over the car in that time frame. Even the motion of removing your hand from the wheel may slow down your actual driving as you compensate for the brake, movement of hand, shift and turn in. The new evolution in transmissions (high end sports cars) saves you from that. I don't know why I am telling you this... you have driven more high end cars on the track than anyone else on this forum. However, I know you like to see how many experts there are lurking in forums like this. If I had the option to test one out I would. If I had tons of money I might even put on in the car. It is something that would take seat time for me to perfect and learn to love. I have been driving stick for 15+ years. I would have to unlearn that as the "fast" method, both mentally and physically. Sort of like the debate on left foot braking.

However, with all of the science and advances in technology.... there is something to be said about a manual stick shift. I just love the feel of it. It is the years of driving sticks that would keep me loyal. It is because of this mental conditioning that I FEEL that I am faster with a manual transmission stick shift car.

 

NICE!....Hmm I guess I've never looked at it that way, it's time I got new prescriptions anyway, thanks. My fastest times are usually the ones when I'm having some of the most fun, as if I'm almost losing control. Is that driving with confidence or just dumb luck?


Mr. D - it's more beneficial when the students are teaching the classroom. Their perspective in itself is more valuable then what I could muster with a few eggs, flower, sugar and 2 teaspoons of oil. Thank you for being attentive as usual.

 

It won't be faster rowing gears but there is something I like about it-always will. It's probably the mechanical connection to the car I like it.

The advancements also make me think of all the overpriced technology in cars that just makes things more expensive/complicated to repair and work around which is annoying.-- I also feel most diagnostics is not 'open' enough and propriety to whatever make to get dealer lock in. The tech is not really simplifying things in most cases. These new dual clutch packs etc. are probably not cheap to replace. I don't really know so I could be wrong, hopefully they remain easy to modify for more power for those who want it and price is equiv.

Part of it could be the stigma associated with 'yesterdays' auto's as compared to manuals. You will always have more control in a manual vs traditional autos.

The new breed as it were will certainly will be faster, but the old clutch/stick will always be welcomed in my garage. I assume at some point we won't have a choice but to switch to paddles.

 

Bingo...Excellent response sir. I've nailed it on the board and you've really nailed it on the wall!!!

 

So since we're on the topic of "Sense of control," what exactly are you looking for? Does the stick have to be at a certain height? Does the ball have to be a certain size? How about the boot, I like mine Green, it trigger's my mind into fast mode, how about you? Why does having great driver enhancements on a vehicle important?


Hey wait a minute............what about the clutch doesn't that have an effect on your stick and performance?

 

For sheer speed on pavement, an automated manual that you are accustomed to (trust) will be faster. But, on dirt and on the ice, the clutch becomes a separate control, not used solely for shifting gears.


Also, for street use. I gather that those automated manuals don't work (I've never driven one though, so I'm mostly going off what I've seen and heard). Last week's Top Gear US was the perfect example, watching Rut trying to drive that Murcielago in downtown NYC was a riot.



Threads like this pop up on every automotive forum from time to time. For the most part, it's down to the driver's preference. But for pure, no-compromise speed, well....there's a reason F1 cars don't have a clutch pedal.

 

Very good insight Chux.

At various levels of high performance driving you'll encounter different variables. Although the toys may change the fundamentals remain the same.

So what can a clutch do that a neutral gear can't offer? Does WRC use a clutch? It's been a while.

 

Well, I don't know how quickly/easily you can go from, say, 3rd gear to neutral and back. But it is useful to clutch-in in a corner to help the tires bite for more lateral grip. Not to mention a clutch-kick to get the ass of the car to rotate

I'm not sure about WRC, but the big budget Rally-America teams use a sequential dog-box. So it has a clutch, but you don't need to use it between gears. Now, part of that is that in Rally-America, electronic clutch/shifting systems are not allowed.

I was up at Whisker's shop when they were working on Dillon Van Way's Fiesta last fall. And he said it has a S2000 transmission (Skoda IIRC), which was also a sequential dogbox (with a magnesium case, btw). And considering the similarities with today's WRC cars to S2000.



I hadn't thought to compare an automated manual to a dogbox, though. I wonder how those compare on the track. It is possible to do it, with automated throttle-cut so you don't have to lift your foot off the throttle. I wonder how the speed of a dogbox compares.

 

Some how I have a feeling this MT vs AT is gonna be just a bit more entertaining and useful then the rest.

 

Gzz I've never heard some many guys sharing their feelings ever

 

You could do the same test as in the video above with your Evo and that other instructor (don't know his name) who has a grey Evo and he was giving rides at BIR last year on the Maperformance event. However, I don't remember if his car was maual.

 

That would be an interesting evolution of the stick shift.

 

Now that I think about it.... isn't that how some of the WRC cars were from the early 2000's? They just had to mash the stick up or down... and also had steering wheel controls. IIRC that is how they were.

 

Yeah, I hate the autosticks. I am always let down. Granted I am never in a "performance" car when I am driving them. I felt the same way about my sister's boyfriends legacy (base model). He has a CVT transmission, yet it shifts gears? Um.... isn't a CVT 1 gear... lol. So they program in the shift?

 

The only problem I have with a MT is I end up dancing too much, not that I mind it's just that when I exit the car I have to finish with a Moon Walk!

 

Now you guys probably didn't know this but I'm gonna let you in a little secret, the Evo MT SST makes our morning coffee for us every morning so we can keep the relationship refresh every time we meet. (cream and sugar sir?) I'm not sure you felt the same way about the "SI" feature. I don't think they even ground their own beans.

 

Whooo Now that's what I'm talkin about, got my heart racing. I've got the kick down, just gotta perfect my spin. Stand back y'all. hee hee

 

Gray Evo Inst - has a standard MT.

The video you've shared is not a fair comparison, the paddle AT is designed more for luxury driving with the appearance of sport driving. That's why it's so backwards.

A good comparison would be like something that will allow you to change the shifting temperament from normal to race. Upshift's are noticeably lighten quick, engine braking under throttle lift or braking. Rev matching under down shifts. Basically what ever I can do in a MT that transmission should be able to do or better.