Will BMW’s electric turbocharger end turbo lag?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ofspunk7, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. ofspunk7
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    ofspunk7 Well-Known Member

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    So not only is the M3 coming with 3 turbos... but there is this....

    The Story

    Will BMW’s electric turbocharger end turbo lag?


    Yes, apparently there is a replacement for displacement. If recently-uncovered patent filings are correct, BMW is working on an electrically-assisted turbocharger that combines a traditional turbo with an electric motor-generator. If it works, the system will let smaller engines produce more power, while performing virtually lag-free.
    Turbochargers have long been a way to employ "lost" energy, in the form of fast-moving exhaust gases, to create more power by stuffing more air into the cylinders to burn more fuel. The traditional trade-off has been between smaller turbos that spool up quickly, providing good transient response and preventing "turbo lag," and larger ones that can jam more air down an engine's gullet at higher RPMs. BMW's existing twin-turbo setup offsets the issue by using both types. But is the company planning to tie its turbos into the beefed-up electricals of its Efficientdynamics gear? The answer is perhaps.
    F30post had already reported that the company was considering a tri-turbo system for the next-gen M3. The new patent filings may have something to do with such a system, but we don't know for sure. We do know that other companies like Borg Warner and Garrett have been working on similar electrically-assisted turbocharger systems for about a decade.
    To be fair, "electric turbocharger" is a bit of a misnomer, one that might confuse some into thinking BMW's delving into the world of cheap "electric superchargers," long a bane of the aftermarket. BMW's system is apparently a hybrid turbocharger, which combines a turbine with an electric motor-generator.
    [See image below: 1) turbo layout; 2) turbine; 2') turbine axle; 3) compressor; 3') compressor axle; 4) electric motor (and alternator); 5) turbine axle; 6) (turbine axle) clutch; 7) (compressor axle) clutch; 8) gearing]

    Full size
    [​IMG]
    The turbine and compressor spin on separate axles that can be uncoupled by a clutch — with the electric motor constantly running in the middle. During full-throttle starts, the electric motor runs the compressor in an instant-on fashion, virtually eliminating the time it would normally take the exhaust gases to spin up a traditional turbine. When the turbine's up to speed, the clutch engages the turbine shaft to run in conjunction with the electric motor. Naturally, all of this switchery happens at ridiculously high RPMs.
    Now here's the cool part. Rather than using a wastegate to hold back the speed of the turbine, the electric motor-generator kicks into generate mode. The resulting electrical current flows back to the battery (or, potentially, to a supercapacitor), while the additional load from the generator regulates turbine speed.
    Naturally, all of this will be controlled by copious electronics, the likes of which aren't clear from the filings.
    There's no information on the vehicles in which BMW might use such a system, but considering the company's push to up the degree of electric gear in its engines, something like this is a logical next step. [See F30post for more.]
     
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  2. xluben
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    xluben Well-Known Member

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    Nifty idea. The regenerative braking instead of a wastegate is an interesting concept, but where would all of that extra exhaust gas go?
     
  3. ofspunk7
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    ofspunk7 Well-Known Member

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    I hope to a SUPER LOUD HKS BOV.... :D

    I was wondering if they just shoot it out of the exhaust.
     
  4. xluben
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    xluben Well-Known Member

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    I would guess it just goes out the exhaust, but that seems like it would be causing a HUGE restriction. From what I understand, the turbo is trying to spin up as fast as possible, and instead of venting off gas to regulate the speed, you are just clamping down on the axle to slow it down. That means hot, fast exhaust gasses are trying to flow through a slow moving turbine and out the exhaust, and will be building up tons of back pressure in the exhaust manifold. Basically the exact opposite of what you want. I'm sure I'm just missing something...
     
  5. ofspunk7
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    ofspunk7 Well-Known Member

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    Or they have a new way to vent the exhaust gas... like redesign the turbo with a secondary outlet? I guess that just mimics the WG but still, maybe it feeds differently. It will be interesting to see how they do this.

    Or maybe the exhaust side is able to spin free when a WG would be used.... allowing it to spin fast enough to release the gas (going off the clutch idea they were talking about)
     
  6. xluben
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    xluben Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was thinking. The clutch would disengage the turbine from the compressor, and instead hook it up to the electric motor. The turbine would still be spinning full bore and letting exhaust through, but it would be charging the battery/capacitor instead of spinning the compressor and making more boost. No more manual boost controllers, lol. All would have to be controlled by the ECU if that's the case.
     
  7. idget
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    idget Want to pokéman? PM ShortytheFirefighter Staff Member

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    Direct Exhaust Injection, n00bs
     
  8. SeanKelly
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    SeanKelly Member

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    Sounds expensive and even more expensive if it breaks. Sounds like a........ BMW.
     
  9. curly2k3
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    curly2k3 Well-Known Member

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    this could be even more bad ass if it was going to a supercapacitor and used a kers type system
     
  10. Zero
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    Zero Well-Known Member

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    :bounce:

    I smell job security.
     
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  11. ofspunk7
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    ofspunk7 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know anything more about this system yet?
     
  12. Zero
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    Zero Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I have not. This is typical for BMW though. They seem to have all kinds of strange ideas on the drawing boards years before the model becomes a reality. Most of these we never see.