worth it?

are EL headers worth it on our cars? as far as power gains with a new turbo, will you see a big difference in numbers when it comes to tuning? reason i'm asking is i just put one on my car and the sounds is, well, less than satisfactory. I dont mind it that much but then whenever i see a wrx roll by with an exhaust i miss how my car used to sound. its like night and day. should i stick with these or sell'm and keep the stockers?

 

sell em

 

keep them if you like sounding like an srt4

 

you'll see gains after the tune around 10-15wtq

 

They can help with spool, at the expense of the rumble. It all depends on what you want outta the car. Are those couple hundres rpm worth it? You are the only one who can answer that.

If you look at the exhaust(heat) pulses hitting the turbo with a stock manifold, they look like this

.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..


With an EL manifold, they look like this

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Thats why gains can be had with an EL setup. A twin scroll setup amplifies this even more. But as I said, it's all about what you wont out of the car.
(thank fobia for the diagram )

 

Keep them if you want more performance. Sell them if you just want to sound good. It's the unfortunate trade off with EL headers on a Subaru.

 

I say you take them off and sell them to me!

 

Seen this? http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91701

this, too. http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91173

 

i would drop em off on dream, i love the signiture subi sound too much

 

dont use stockers, trade them for aftermarket un-equals, or just keep them, your car sounds mean as ****, its different, but thats what is cool....everyone knows the suby rumble...but when an sti comes up and sounds like that.........its evil---get a new turbo and injectors and a tune and you will be set to jet KEEP YOUR HEADER..r u coming out tonight?

 

THe EL headers make you JDM yO! You not see mines sound like S204!!!!

 

By no means do you need a pump or injectors for S2.

 

At least for an STi you do if you dont want to be at 95% IDC.

And if you are doing ANYTHING else to car you do need them.

 

You have to taper off boost a lot at high RPM with a normal stage 2 car because you run out of injector headroom. So when he says "Properly support stage 2", he means that more power can be had with bigger injectors because you can hold onto your boost longer.

 

already have 850cc injectors and a walboro in my room. waiting for the turbo to come and then i'll put them all in at once. I'm well aware that my IDC is probobly very high right now. I didnt expect to see any gains just bolting them on but i was absolutly amazed at how much smoother the car feels. just getting into gear and playing around with the throttle, it feels much better. the only thing i miss is the growl

 

yeah for sure hit me up when you guys roll out

 

may be a possibility:biggrin:

 

if you keep a resonator in the midpipe, the EL sound is very nice.
mine sounded like **** on my borla, catback.... like absolute ****... i switched to a perrin cat back and it's the sex.
kind of a cross between an evo and a 911.

 

What brand?

 

perrin

 

oh i know, it sounds kinda average when its down low but when you get up into higher rpms, she screeeaaams

 

Boost tappers on it's own at high rpms with the vf39. I'm running just as much power as a stage 2 STI with almost 19lbs peek and IDC's are never above 91%.. that's with a rather rich a/f ratio. Seach IWSTI and you'll see everyone else saying the same thing. Pump and injectors aren't needed for just S2. A pump good to have? At 80 bones maybe. Injectors, no way.

 

I have and I think most would agree that using DB as a reference thread on tuned cars is a laugh. Nothing against mlgez for going there but that was a lot of hoops to jump and a lot of parts to get 280hp. They obviously are missing a few things.

Not sure what to tell you about your 15-20 tunes. Every thread on IWSTI I've seen re: injectors and S2 say it's not needed. My logs say the exect same thing. Heck, stock my IDC were 5-7 % higher then what they are tuned.

 

Dynos are reference tools. RS I am sure this would read more. It is not about the overall number but going to the same dyno each time to get an idea of how much change you had and if the mods help. As for 280 on a VF-39, stage 2s there all put down 250-260 consistantly.

So exactly how is it a laugh? Everyone should know dyno to dyno there will always be differences, even of the same manuf...

 

Oh and from the readings I have done the desired duty cycle is 80-85%. After that the injectors start to not be able to open and close fast enough. They can only open/close part way from full close/open when you are asking them to turn on/off and then back off/on too fast. There is a ramp up/down time. In electronics it is called rise and fall time. Above that 85% time they can not open and close fully. Everything I have heard or read says you hit that above 85%.

 

Your logs are showing 90% idcs at only 14 psi. wtf do you think is going to happen when you get an actual exhaust that will allow the engine to pump some decent air and also bump up your boost to 16-17psi @ redline?

 

That's not the case with most modern injectors. That rule of thumb is a bit outdated, imho.

 

Go up? sure. Enough to warrant new injectors *just* for that? No way. Not on the stock snail and/or pump gas.

 

You say that like you can run 20psi to redline with the stock snail at S2 levels. Good luck with that. Almost everyone at that level tappers back down to stock at redline. It's just the way it is. I'd like to see one example of an S2 OTS map that puts boost higher then 18psi peek. I've yet to see it and most report 17-18.

As for being happy or not where I am, I'm good. I'd like to see a log/dyno plot of what you'd call good though.

 

Well I was able to move up 2psi at the top end because of larger injectors. Yes the factory turbo tapers off but you have to taper off faster because of the injectors.

 

Not sure what to tell you. All day long I can pull out posts of people running 21 psi tappering down to 17 on stock injectors tuned by people like PDX and XX. Yes, they upgraded the pump. No they didn't upgrade the injectors. That's pump gas and no meth. That's also with a few supporting mods beyond a typical stage 2.

 

Sorry for the old bump but this exact question just came up on IWSTI (Does stage 2 need injectors for ANY reason?). Just wanted to point the thread out to others.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92719

Notice post #6.

 

They proved that exact statement wrong in that very thread and the other linked within it. The VF39 at Stg 2 levels simply cannot flow enough to max out the stock fuel system, period. Adding a pump and/or injectors will net you nothing but lower IDCs. They also addressed safety and the tuners in there all agreed that holding the car at 11.1 or richer was not an issue.

As for DB and their tuning of mlgez goes, to each their own. That's all I got to say about that.

 

Actually the tune is Russ' with DB tweeking the levels a little in the areas that needed it with new mods. Russ was moving and could nto get to it. The AFRs are great and the timing has not been touched.