or an enginuity flash? you may want to do some researching on open source tuning before you put down the 400-500 on an AP. it may not be for you, but like steveo and i said...there are other options out there if funds are limited. cheers
i have one on ebay but its for an 06 wrx manual with protuner if anyones interested..its at 500 bucks right now!! factory refurb!!!
Well if your looking for a stage one or two tune you can get the power without buying an ap. Pm WRX1, Steve-o, or Wall of Tv's. They should be able to help you with that.
Do you get more power with an open ecu flash compared to the AP? I do like the idea of being able to go to stage 2 whenever I want(after a downpipe) or go back to stock. Can you do that with the ecu flash?
No you cant. But if your just going stage two the guys on here could probably do it for about 100 bucks. And it is the same stage two map from the ap.
Yes and No. If you go stage 1 for a bit and install a downpipe the car has to be reflashed by someone with the cable and knowledge to do so. An openecu tune with just like 30min of road tuning time will make more power and a safer car than an off the shelf cobb map everytime.
Sooooo, I take it the ap isn't the super-duper wonder gadget I thought it was. Reading some other subie forums you get the idea that everyone has an ap and it's the greatest thing ever. I do like the idea however of messin' around with it myself and not having to take the car somewhere etc.
It does have some benifits that openecu doesnt. But if you are just looking for a stage one or two I would go open ecu. If your looking at changing turbos or more drastic mods then an ap wouldn't be the worst thing to pick up. But the openecu programing technolgy is getting better all the time. There are always new updates to it. I would be willing to say that openecu could be on the same level as an ap some day.
Iroc-Thanks for the info. Okay, now if I want to go the openecu route, What do I have to do? What steps are involved? How much power can you expect from a stage 1 flash? Geez, could I ask any more questions?
If you NEED to have different maps and NEED a very convienient way to swap them around, then the AP is a good choice. And the Enginuity guys are very close to begin testing on RAM flashing (ie, realtime tuning), per-gear wastegate/boost control, and launch control. Sweet stuff, indeed!
I'm a total n00b and was just going to buy the AP so that I wouldn't have to deal. But I am an engineer, and the demon inside wants to tinker. What are the basic parameters for tuning? My understanding is that you have: Fuel flow (cc/min?) ignition timing (deg) knock correction? (units?) (same as ignition timing??) random terminology I've heard on the net: wastegate control/boost control (psi?) open loop closed loop anything else? What are some general rules to tuning? as in if XXX => YYY (if knocking => retard timing X deg). and so on. I understand theres probably a lot more to it than 2 or 3 elementary rules. I guess I'm just wondering where do I start?
Start with reading as much as you can! There really isn't any sort of n00b tuning guide out there that I've ever seen. The best advice I can give is to go over to enginuity.org and read every thread in the tuning discussion forum.
This is interesting stuff. BUT What I think I'm really looking for is a simple to use gadget that produces results. It seems the ap fits this. Granted, it's probably not as good as a custom tune, but I'm not that serious about or going to spend the time getting every last hp out of it.
Start here: http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ECU Then: http://www.enginuity.org/ http://forums.openecu.org/ Obviously, the AP is easier to use. I am extremely happy that I found openecu, and would recommend it to anyone who; enjoys spending time learning, tinkering, and playing with their car, computer, or other toys. It requires time to learn, and a patient hand when tuning. You are rewarded with: --safety (obviously, something tuned for your car specifically, is going to be better on your engine) --cost (much cheaper) --Knowledge (I would say this is my personal favorite). Good luck!
But unless your modifing the tune all the time why would you get an ap. I will give you an example of most ap users. Buy the ap. Install stage two on vehicle. Put ap in box and never touch it again. Now you have around 500 bucks into stage two tunning. Now lets say you get a stage two tune from openecu. You pay 100 bucks for the tune. You have the same amount of power for 100 bucks vs 500 bucks. I guess my point is all about saving money. I would rather stick my 400 dollars into something else.
I don't know maybe its just me but I like my AP I don't have time to fiddle around w/tuning nor do I have the enthusiasm to learn all that is involved in doing it myself. If you looking for something easy to install and use I think the AP is still a great way modify you car and if the time comes you can still have the tuning tweaked to fit you needs. And if a few hundred bucks is gonna kill ya you probably shouldn't be spending you money modding your car.
I hear ya. Do you have to get a downpipe or whatever to go to stage 2 with openecu? What octane gas is safe or are these maps similar to the ap?
It's not like the AP where you have to follow a certain set of guidelines -- the maps are tailered to your car with your mods and your fuel (assuming the person who is flashing your car is competent to make the adjustments). People just tend to use the Cobb staged terms since everyone is familliar with them. Sure, there are "staged" maps available for use -- but they are mostly intended as a good starting point to tune from. If you really wanted, you could start from the stock map and go from there even; it would just take longer.
Kaos, I am not recommending doing the tuning yourself. I am recommending that you pay someone like wall of tvs, wrx1, or steve-o to do the flash for you. If you plan on messing with the tune yourself get an ap.
See, this is the dilemma. Not doubting any of those guys abilities, but there is the whole I don't know you from Jack factor with that. I bet those guys have had great success flashing ecus, and I'm sure I'll meet everyone once spring is back in swing and I actually make it out. But still, what happens in the scenario where I'm on a road trip and I'm somewhere in the middle of montana (or say, colorado at 10,000ft.) and I don't have anyone around? Seems like a not so good idea to me, and worth it to just drop the extra ~$300 to get the AP. Again, I'm a n00b to all this and maybe nothing really happens once everything is set up. Plus, there is the whole thing where if a couple/few hundred bucks is gonna break the bank, maybe modding isn't a hobby one should have. I guess I see open ecu as something someone would want to use as a tinkering tool moreso than a set it and forget it kind of thing.
If you are at 10,000 feet you will see less boost, more fuel, so basicly you'll be looking at bad gas mileage and no power...not anything that is gonna hurt your car.
I guess that's what I'm getting at. Shouldn't the MAF sensor detect the thinner air and put less fuel into the mix to keep it stoich? Or would an open ecu flash, stock ecu, and AP all have the same effect (not learning/making the change, bad mileage, etc.)?
I think we're getting a bit off track here. Can anyone address the original question? Keep in mind money is not a major factor.
If money isn't a factor, why not pre-order an AP 2.0 right now, you'd probably be able to get it by the time you'd be able to seal a deal from a private party. Otherwise I'd just look at nasioc. There always seems to be one for sale over there. Edit: ====== Sorry for the hijack, I'll take it over to the open ecu thread.
i think sometimes that some of the openecu enthusiasts are willfully forgetting you can protune an accessport.... or that you can switch a map quickly without hiding a laptop in your car. Want a 91 octane map, a race gas map and a race map for those that race? easy and simple with an AP, less so with open ecu. Want to run methanol, but dont want to run it all the time? its easy to switch it off and switch maps with an AP. The APv2's digital gauges are nice if theres something you want to keep an eye on but don't have a gauge for too. Want to get gtech style added features like simulated HP/TQ, strip data etc get an APv2. It will have the features soon even though we're all aware it doesn't already. I'm not saying openecu isnt nice, but the fact is, its not for beginners or anyone who values convenience over a richer user tuning interface. If you pay a good tuner to protune your AP they should be able to do equally as good of a tune on either system
There are compensation tables in the ecu (stock or modified) that adjust boost and wastegate values based on atmospheric pressure. This whole reflashing thing is nothing more than simply adjusting the values within the ecu that were initially put there by Denso. The only difference between the different types of tuning software/devices is the interface with the ecu.
