I know I don't post here often, but I wasn't able to find much info in the archives, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can help... I've got a '95 Legacy with the 2.2 and an AT in it. Just this weekend it started doing something weird under certain WOT conditions. If I'm already rolling and put my foot to the floor it downshifts and takes off as per normal. But, if I'm at a standstill and go straight to WOT, it bogs and hesitates and wants to stall. If I lift off a bit it'll then go just fine. Also, on a 90-mile drive on the interstate yesterday it seemed to need to downshift more frequently than usual in order to maintain the 70MPH the cruise was set at, while going up hills. I can't say that I've rulled out a tranny issue, but even when I put the car into 1st manually and try the WOT-from-a-stand-still test, it bogs almost to the point of stalling, until I lift a little bit. I just replaced the t-belt a couple weeks ago, but this problem just cropped up this weekend. I'm 99.9% certain that the cams and crank were all lined up spot-on when I put the everything back together, and even though I had to take the crank sensor off, no other sensors were unplugged or messed with during the procedure. And when I did have the crank sensor off, it was treated with care and set aside in a clean, safe area until it was needed again. I plan to borrow a friend's code-reader tonight, but beyond what it tells me (or doesn't tell me), what should I be on the lookout for? ***EDIT: Just got a call from the Mrs. She say it's now surging slow/fast/slow/fast at a steady throttle position.
My 96 impreza did this when I put on an intake, but wouldnt do it when it was stock, I never figured it out, then I turboed it and it went away (go figure). is it stock?
Pretty much. It's got a K&N drop-in and the side of the airbox is cut open with 3" holes. But that's not new, I've driven it like that with no issues for the past 2 years. Otherwise, it's bone stock. Just added an edit to the OP: My wife says it's now surging when her foot is steady on the throttle.
Hmmmmmmmmmm, hopefully it will trip a code, sounds maybe like a front o2 sensor, maybe a maf. It could even be a FPR.
Have you changed the spark plugs lately.... My 2.2 Legacy was running fairly rough i changed the filters and then got new plugs and wires and it ran like a champ after that.... Just one more thing to try. Good luck
Plugs and wires were new only a year ago. It doesn't feel like an ignition issue (for whatever 'feel' might be worth) but I'm not ruling it out just yet. Best guess right now is MAF, O2, TPS or some combination of the above. I'm going to need to wait until after work when I can run codes before I can guess much more than that though. I've got a friend with spare MAF and TPS but I'm not really looking forward to possibly needing a $125 O2 sensor.
Got MAP codes and an EGR code. Since the car doesn't have a MAP sensor, is it safe to assume that the reader means MAF? I cleared everything then went for a drive. Couldn't get the EGR code back, but the MAP code came back. Cleared them again then let it just idle. After only 2 minutes of idle I got the MAP code again. I couldn't get it to surge like Angie said it was doing earlier today, but the bogging down at WOT is unchanged.
a few thoughts.... my '92 2.2 in my loyale was doing something very similar. it's a manual, so any time I left it in a higher gear and floored it (below ~2500 rpms), it would bog down. then I installed the wideband Air/Fuel gauge, to find that when it was doing this, it was pegging the gauge to the rich side (like 7:1 or worse). a full tune-up helped, plugs, wires, filter. and I think the new 02 sensor for the gauge helped too, as it slowly got better once that was installed. also, being that yours is a '95 2.2, I'm assuming it's OBD II. if it's like the other early OBD II 2.2s that I've worked on, it has a MAF and a MAP. I put a '96 impreza 2.2 in an '86 wagon last summer, and didn't get the MAP sensor plugged in all the way , I noticed a substantial jump in mileage and power (not so much sheer peak hp, but much smoother tip-in, etc) when that was working. the MAP sensor would be mounted to a bracket on the passenger side strut tower. there are 2 little electrical units there with vacuum lines going to the engine. one has 2 vacuum ports (I forget the name of it, a solenoid of some sort), and the MAP just has one. black plug IIRC. also, depending on how many miles you put on in a year, and what kind of plugs are in it. it might be a good idea to change them again. it's not like they're expensive......a set of 4 NGKs is like $8 :biggrin:
yep, and since it was bogging rich would explain why you're not seeing the problem now that you're turbo. what better way to solve the "too much fuel" issue than forcing more air in it :biggrin:
Found it. So my car has a MAF and a MAP, eh? Don't they do essentially the same job as far as the ECU is concerned? I've got a spare MAF I'm getting from a friend tomorrow to try. What can I expect to pay for a MAP, and is it something only available at the dealer?
don't ask me why....but yes, they have both. and they use both. ugh.... depending on your location, I'd probably go to Upull for one. they list a MAF as $9....plus $2 entry. and they've got a 95, 96 and 97 at the East Bethel location: www.upullrparts.com
Would that I could. I live and work out in Eau Claire, WI. 3-4 hours round trip drive just isn't in the cards. Thanks for all the help guys, I'll post back here to let you know what worked out!
I managed to find a MAP locally and got it plugged in. Well, good news is, it seemed to help. Bad news is, it didn't fix it completely. Took it for a nice drive, made it demonstrate it's issue, then scanned it. No codes. Even though the new MAP seems to have taken care of the error code itself, is my ECU smart/dumb enough to need time to 'learn' the new sensor? I'd driven it about 200 miles with this issue, and only about 4-5 miles with new MAP in it.
yea, the logic modules do learn fuel mixtures and what not over time. so yea, it'll probably change over then next 50-100 miles or so. hopefully for the better.
Whew, good to know. With no error codes but the problem still not corrected, I was worried I had a diagnostic nightmare on my hands.
So, yeah, about that nightmare.... After 150 miles of highway and about 75 miles of city driving yesterday, the car is still doing the same thing; Bogging and wanting to stall at WOT from a standstill, and showing some subtle surging at constant throttle. The surging is more of a light jerking and is subtle enough that if I'd had the AC on I'd have blamed the compressor, and really only crops up in the 45-55MPH range. Tonight I'm going to try cleaning the MAF and replacing the up-stream O2 sensor. I also got a paper air filter to replace the K&N, as I've heard some MAF's don't like the oil in the cotton filters. I'm not getting codes from either the MAF or the O2 (or from anything for that matter), but it can't hurt to attend to some maintenance on them. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the coil pack might be behaving badly. Is it possible for it to fail enough for me to feel, but not enough or in the right parameters for it to trip a code?
Update/Summary: '95 Legacy 2.2L, AT, OBD2, 168k miles Car hesitates/bogs down at WOT from a standstill, almost to the point of stalling. Very subtle surging at steady throttle between 45-55 MPH. Increased frequency of downshifts to maintain 70MPH up hills on i-state. MAP error code displayed, replaced MAP sensor, code went away. Problem still there. Cleaned MAF, replaced K&N with fresh paper, problem still there. Replaced up-stream O2 sensor. Problem still there. Car was driven 200+ miles following MAP replacement to reset the ECU. Battery unplugged for approx 3 hours while MAF unplugged and O2 being replaced. Code scanner says nothing is wrong. No error codes, nothing in the 'freeze-frame' mode, nothing out of the ordinary. I should add too that at any part-throttle accelration it pulls stong and smooth. And at steady throttle below 45 or above 55, it's nice and smooth.
my instinct wants to say that it's most likely a fuel problem.....but the rest of me isn't convinced. fuel filter? plugs and wires are new enough that they should be causing a problem. so you're hunch of a coil pack might not be wrong. if you had a clogged injector or failing pressure regulator, you'd probably have more issues throughout the rev range. but still a possibility. might be worth testing the TPS voltage to see if that's in spec...
I was thinking about this too. What's the procedure for testing it and what voltages am I looking for, and which pin do I pull the signal from? The last TPS I futzed was almost 10 years ago on a Ford EEC-IV system.
mine does that too! i have a 95' 2.2L auto wgn and when i put an intake on it it started bogging down on WOT @ anything less than 3-4 grand and worse from a standstill it wont move at all almost stalling! trying to get across mesaba @ rush hour is like playing russian roulette. is their any way to educate this retarded engine? a chip or something?
This is actually somewhat encouraging to me. I've had my airbox cut open for 2 years now and the problem only just started... But... if someone else with the same engine is having the same problem and the odd factor out is the intake, maybe that's where I should be looking... The holes in my air box don't make the car any faster anyway, I just like the noise it makes
ive been pulled over twice for "noise violation" cuz its so loud but with a stock muffler they cant figure out why its so loud! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha supid f#$ks
Bumping this back up... The problem still exists, and now I'm thinking maybe there's a "dead spot" in the TPS' range of measurement. I know where the TPS is and it looks pretty easy to swap out, but my question has to do with calibrating it. Does it need calibrating whenever it's been R&Red or can I just plug a new one in to a similar position and expect it to work fine?
since the TB valve resets to full/almost full close on its own you should be able to just toss the TPS on there w/o needing any sort of calibration. I do think that you need to "clock" the sensor when you put it on, since the little tabby ting in it that mates with the TB is spring loaded. Pretty much you need to slide it on and twist it to tension the internal spring in the TPS so that when the TB opens the actuates the TPS and the spring in the TPS wants to push back against it. atleast that is my understanding of this. As for the issue in general. My dad has a 95 2.2l AT impreza wagon and it hesitates (bad) under WOT especially from lower RPMS. We changed the spark plugs and the issue went away (216K on original plugs :eek3: ). His would occasionally throw a misfire code because of this. I guess my gut feeling is that it is related to spark. My FPR was going out on me and the result was that it had issues starting while warm (almost start but not quite, then would start on the next crank). I had an intake on my 2.2l AT for several years and as soon as I put it on I noticed that it would bog down under high deflection at lower RPMs. I just attributed this to the larger amount of air that was entering the engine. I can say that the problem was less evident while I had a turbo on it. Perhaps that is the solution to any 2.2l issues is to just boost it
ya it just wants a turbo as bad as you do i got new iridium spark plugs for mine and the prob went away for a couple start ups then it just went back to hesitating. the first time i tried the spark plug and coil change to solve this prob i got high performance platinum plugs and after a 2 mile test run the spark plugs were fried! 12.95 each and they didnt last more than 2 miles! its a very unusual problem. 2.2s just dont like cai.
So. thought I'd bump this up. the last month or so, the hesitation in my wagon has been getting VERY bad! then, earlier this week, I put in a "new" motor. and it has gone away COMPLETELY. So, the intake (with cone filter and home-made adapter), MAF, ignitor, wiring, ECU, fuel pump, all stayed the same. I can't narrow it down much, but it is either something on the engine. OR, speed-sensor related (as I have not yet hooked up the speedo cable, will do that tomorrow morning). I will take my multimeter out and test the TPS tomorrow as well.
